Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Peter Lebedevs Interview: Dallas Open Preview & Improving Volley Skills

• Will Boucek • Episode 152

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Peter Lebedevs joins the show for the 3rd time as the Dallas Open enters year three as an ATP 250 tournament. Peter is the tournament director for the tournament and an accomplished tennis coach as well.

You'll get a sneak peek of what to expect from this year's Dallas Open and a look at the 2025 event which is moving to the Dallas Cowboys practice facility along with an upgrade to an ATP 500. Nearly all the top American men's players will be at this year's tournament: Frances Tiafoe, Tommy Paul, Rielly Opelka, Chris Eubanks, and Ben Shelton.

I'll be attending the tournament this year but will spend much of my time on the doubles courts... obviously 😉
Previous Dallas Open doubles winners include Michael Venus & Jamie Murray (2023) and Marcelo Arevalo & Jean-Julien Rojer (2022). The draw is usually strong with several up-and-coming teams to watch.

We also discuss how to develop volley and net skills as a doubles player.

  • Why club players struggle with volleys more than groundstrokes.
  • Two new volley drills to improve your transition and offensive volleys.
  • How to add confidence to your net game in 3 months.

Peter also coaches top 100 WTA doubles player, Catherine Harrison, who has been on the podcast previously. We get an update on her career as well.

See the shownotes for this episode here: https://www.thetennistribe.com/peter-lebedevs-interview/



**Doubles Strategy Courses** These video courses will help you play smarter doubles and make winning easier.


**Doubles Ebooks** These guides offer proven advice to improve your doubles strategy.

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Download your free doubles guide to learn how to force errors and get more easy volleys at TheTennisTribe.com/doubles-guide/.

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Speaker 1:

Hey everyone, I am a little bit sick so I apologize if I sound a little bit off, but I wanted to get this episode out to y'all this week. This is a conversation from January 12th with the tournament director of the Dallas Open, peter Lebedevs. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while then you'll know Peter's been on several times before and he shares a lot of insights on what it takes to run an ATP 250 tournament. So we talk a lot about the changes that are coming this year for the Dallas Open and also next year, where they're going to be moving up to Frisco, texas, which is just north of Dallas, to the Dallas Cowboys practice facility called the Dallas Star, and they're going to be upgraded to an ATP 500 tournament. So that's some really exciting changes for Peter and for the state of Texas in general as far as tennis is concerned. But for this year there's a really, really good lineup. The player field includes basically all of the top American male players, with the exception of Taylor Fritz, and who knows he? He may change his mind Depending on how the rest of the Australian Open goes, but regardless, we talk about the player field, we talk about some of the changes for this year.

Speaker 1:

And then we do dive into some net play strategy as well, because Peter is also a coach. Peter Works with Katherine Harrison, who I've had on the podcast before. Katherine Lost in the first round of the Australian Open this year in a pretty tight match. She's coming off of a lot of injuries. I'm from last year and Peter talks about or basically gives us an update on her. We also discuss net play strategies. So I asked him why he thinks that net play was the number one Issue that people had. When I sent out that survey about a month ago. I asked all of you you know what? What do you feel like you need the most help with? And net play was the answer and he had an interesting Answer to why he thought that was. We talk a little bit about why it feels so much worse to make an error from the net than it does from the baseline. I also task him with the challenge of improving someone's confidence at the net in only three months for a roughly three five level player, and he Shares how he would approach that. He also shares a couple of volley drills to improve your hands that I've never used these exact drills before and I don't think anybody's ever mentioned these on the podcast either. So some new information for you there.

Speaker 1:

And then we at the end we talk about where to get tickets so you can go to Dallas open calm to get tickets to the tournament and also volunteer. They need drivers still, which is crazy to me because I Feel like Everyone I've talked to in the past who has volunteered as a driver at these tournaments absolutely loves it. You get to Drive the players around town. You might be able to pick up Francis Tiappa from the airport. You might drive Tommy Paul to dinner, who knows? So if you do live in the Dallas area or Want to come to Dallas for the tournament, I believe you get some kind of free access to tickets on your off days. But volunteering as a driver is a lot of fun. So I encourage you to do that if you're interested. So, without further delay, enjoy this conversation. Year three of the Dallas open with Peter Lebedevs. Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. Today we have, for the third time on the show the tournament director of the Dallas open, peter Lebedevs. Peter, welcome back.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

So we've got the tournament coming up for the the third year In February, february 3rd through 11th. Last year we had this conversation and I asked you what's going to be different? And y'all added Electronic line calling. You had better food last year and then you had more shopping, a big, bigger Kind of area with merchandise and stuff like that. So what is going to be new for year three?

Speaker 2:

You know it's. We got the the formula pretty well down last year. We've got to make a scene of that for our mumbo drink and it got a few new graphics You're gonna see on the video board so people can have a little bit of fun with with the ace graphic and with our deuce graphics. So we're gonna encourage people to have some good times. We're doing some delivery into seats or our boxes in our second floor people. So during matches you might even see the odd waker going out there delivering some drinks, which we did last year, but we're doing a little more this year, which is great.

Speaker 2:

And, yeah, new players always trying to do that as well. For our ladies classic on that Saturday night we have Caroline Bosniakki, who is obviously a, you know, former number one, coming back, been playing some great tennis At the US open and getting ready for the Aussie open, and Chini Bouchard, a former number four in the world. She's coming to play that match. And then, with the guys We've got first time, we've got Tommy Paul coming to our event, which you know his ranking right now it's 14 in the world for our list. And then Ben Shelton, who you know. Who knows what Ben's gonna do with that left, you serve a few new players and a few new opportunities like that, so it should be great, great tennis out there.

Speaker 1:

I yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. There's, it seems like all of the pretty much all the top Americans, I guess, with the exception of fritz, are gonna be there Tiafo, tommy Paul, ben Shelton, chris Eubanks I saw who. I love them. He's a lot of fun to watch. Opelka is gonna be back, hopefully healthy Again as well.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, and then, of course, saturday night, like you said, was me. I can't be sure. It'll be a lot of fun. And then you'll have a big announcement in the last couple months about next year, so 2025. You're moving up to a 500. Tell us what's going on. What can we expect going forward for next year?

Speaker 2:

Well, in 2025, where we were lucky enough to be awarded one of the upgrades from a 250 to a 500, there were 17 different bids from various Tournaments and management groups around the world and we were lucky enough to be granted one of them. And how that happened is we've partnered with the Dallas Cowboys to be out at Ford Center at the start, so we're gonna be going into that venue out there, which is absolutely amazing. We'll be able to get both courts in there, as well as full practice, we're gonna have a 6000 feet arena and on one side of the court we're gonna have a triple decker Type structure where, on the lowest level, you have boxes and food. On the second level, you have some more boxes in another food area and on the third level, where you can look out on all. Through those levels to both courts, you'll have a restaurant experience. So it's gonna be absolutely amazing. And for the players, they're going to be able to stay at the hotel, which is connected to the venue, so theoretically, the guys could go up to their Hotel and never step out. Five for the next nine days, but the star has 17 different restaurants out in that area and we're gonna have an amazing time for the players Obviously, the state of the art facility that will take care of the players and then for the fans as well.

Speaker 2:

We've got some new things planned. I want to make a promise is yet we're working on sort of it Does it, does it. It doesn't work, but it's gonna be really amazing. And, working with the Cowboys, we had Charlotte Jones do our announcement with us on that day. It was fantastic. We had, you know, austin cry check out there. You know, number one doubles player in the world because that's where he trains out in that area, along with Philip Farmer, and we had some, you know, really great momentum that we're gonna be looking forward to. Gotta get through this one first and do a great job here and make sure our fans really had taken care of in 24 and then 25 go up to that new level, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so so you said there is 17 Applications and they handed out how many for three. Three, okay.

Speaker 2:

One, one in April and two in.

Speaker 1:

February got it Okay, and then who are the other two that got Upgraded?

Speaker 2:

It was they had the. Munich was upgraded, and so was Dubai was upgraded as well. Oh yeah, it's some great looks, some great bids I saw a few of them and a lot of, a lot of work, a lot of time going into it. You know we have to show the ATP what we were going to do for the players and the fans, and also you know what made sense, for when you become one of only 16 500, does that make sense? You know how does it look on a map telling the story of the. You know more high-end events that the ATP is trying to create and you know you know lengthening those thousands out and so obviously Dallas and partnering with the Cowboys is a huge piece, for that Looks great on the calendar and you know one of the 16 cities that deserves to be a 500 event.

Speaker 2:

So it's really really great effort by you know, the city here in Frisco and Dallas help us. Both those help us together, along with the Cowboys out there and putting that package together. So there's a lot, of, a lot of team effort and John is and, of course, and few letters from the, from the players, the US players, saying, hey, guys, we love a 500 because that would make us only the second 500 in the United States and you can see how many players we now have in the top 100 in the US. Gary Furman, our principal of GS sports, has always been and got into this to help American tennis and you know, with our commitment to the wild cards for college players and things like this, so the opportunity to bring another 500 to the American players was something that he thought would be fantastic for us. And again, a lot of hard work and they've got it across the line.

Speaker 1:

Is the so that date will stay roughly the same correct? It'll still be in pretty much.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, pretty much the same. It's sort of depends a little bit on each year the ACP calendar changes and it's based on Sort of where the grand slams go and then the ACP sort of moves in inside of that as well as David cup, so very close to the same dates.

Speaker 1:

Okay, got it. And then for For this year. We talked about a lot of the, the singles players who May not play doubles. I would love to see it, but at a 250. I know a lot of times it doesn't happen. What? What do you have in terms of a doubles field so far for this year?

Speaker 2:

You know, the doubles field doesn't come out for another two weeks and so the doubles guys. So they haven't really gotten a lot of entries yet. Obviously Jackson with row Nate Lamond are you know our finals from last year they're back in. Obviously the local guys, that's really about the only thing that is actually signed up. But what happens is it's just like the amateur people they sign up and then the highest ranked people get selected. It's no different to what we're doing in our regular tournament and just like our regular tournaments, all of the entries come in, like the last three days.

Speaker 2:

It's kind of crazy, you know, when somebody's not used to it, they look online, go. Oh my gosh. You know we're gonna get the players, like even even I had to remind a few of the agents for our single guys Don't don't forget deadlines on Monday. So please sign up. But yeah, we'll get it. We'll get a stronger list as we go forward. But we've always been very, very good for our doubles here, you know. You know two years ago, when Our Avello and Rojia won our event and then they got to the tour finals, had a great year and and we had Michael Venus and and Jamie Murray winning our event, yeah, it's so. We've had some great double teams. You know the Nate and Jackson finished top 10 in the year. That didn't quite make the tour finals, but you know top 10 theme, so it's gonna be some outstanding doubles players always.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, they're definitely will be. I was there for the the match last year and yeah it was. It was kind of a topsy-turvy match with the 10-point tiebreaker to decide it. A lot of fun.

Speaker 2:

Do you remember what changed the final more than anything else? We, so you're there for the final. Yeah, I remember there was a bit of a delay System or something it was the electronic line calling system went down Words that I don't understand.

Speaker 2:

A blade server went down, whatever that means and so we had about 10 minutes, 12 minutes, of no tennis and that changed the momentum. You know, you as a coach and teaching people about tennis, you know how important momentum is. I think, had that not happened, I think Nate and Jackson were on on a roll. They were yes, changes the momentum of the match and you know, as they say, that what they won't face the reason. But it definitely Changed things, you know, and it's simple. Yeah, just taking 10 minutes to sit down, I think really, really changed that a lot.

Speaker 1:

It did, and I'm actually glad you brought that up, because I remember when that happened, the following week I did a podcast episode and talked about that and the thing I noticed so it was about a 12 minute delay. I think so then they got a A three minute warm-up, I believe after that it wasn't a right minute to write up to 10, you get a.

Speaker 2:

You get a three minute warm-up, right.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So they they got a three minute warm-up. They went back out there and I was thinking, like what would a typical, like what would I do with a three minute warm-up after a 10-minute delay, or a club level player? But they went back out there, they hit for 20 seconds and they served for two and a half minutes. Like all they focused on was serves.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely at that level. Those guys it's serve and return. So they got to make sure they're making their first serve and getting Getting that in. But yeah, that's look, I might, I might take a few more volley, but for them it's all about, it's all about. So they got to get those first serves in and control the point from the first ball.

Speaker 1:

You know, just like kind of yeah, it was really crazy to watch. I mean, I knew they would focus on that some, but it was like 80 or 90 percent of the the warm-up time. Okay, so I want to ask a few strategy questions. First off, I want to get a quick update on Catherine. So how is? How is Catherine doing in the offseason? I know she's been in Thailand playing a bit right.

Speaker 2:

She has. She actually, she's sort of looking to relocate and she's been about, you know, 10 days with me here in Dallas before she took off to Thailand. And we, we're working hard just like any great athlete. You know, seven o'clock in the morning getting up and grinding it out there and Then she plays some matches in the afternoon and do her fitness. She, she went to Thailand. She Want a couple of rounds. She's right, four and two on the season, one for matches off to. She just lost what have we? Last night to the number two seed, who actually won an event last week.

Speaker 2:

She's hitting the ball. Well, her and I've been talking in it. She's like I'm hitting the ball now as well as I've hit it in a long time and it's just look again. The practice was nothing special to batting a lot of balls In getting prepped for for the trip down there. She loves the, she loves the heat. So Thailand was a great option. Hadn't been there before, always trying to do something different. And now she's going to. She's in the double. They draw dubs at Oz, so she's, she's heading there to the Aussie open this week, in a couple of days, but she, she's sort of looking to make that change and do something a little different. You know it's the old adage of do the same thing, expect different results is not good. So yeah, she's looking at Dallas is potentially based because we got a few young ladies who are now training out of Dallas. You're at the SMU tennis center, so it's it's actually a lot better, both ACP and WTA players now. So it's great in great place.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. Yeah, tennis in Texas is really on their eyes. Um, yeah, hopefully I'll get to see her, maybe at the the ATX open and we can get another podcast there. All right, so let's, let's dive into. I just want to do three or so net play questions. So, as I'm preparing for 2024, I'm Send out the survey to all the listeners of the podcast and our followers on Instagram and stuff like that, and I said what is your, your number one problem on the doubles court? And I've got listed out serve strategy, return strategy, net play, baseline strategy, men's all game, and number one is net play strategy. Why do you think that is for a 3-0 to 4-0 level player? Why do you think they would say net play is their biggest issue?

Speaker 2:

Because that's looked at as where you end the point. You're at the closest to the net. You should be ending the point there. Part of that is the ability to take that short ball, or rather take that floating ball and do that, and it takes practice and that split second it goes past you, they go gosh. I should have had that.

Speaker 2:

So they always feel like they're not doing enough as a net player. So I think that's where they look at it. And then of course, as you know, you miss one or two and you start thinking, oh, I'm going to not do it, I'll just sort of cover my half of the court. So I think that's why they feel that they know that they can be the one to end the point and it's hold it by all the coaches, and just that confidence and that ability to execute sort of creeps up in their mind as they do that. To me, what they have to do is understand what their strengths are on their volley game. If you've got a great forehand volley, lean over a little bit, take a little more room. If you don't like your backhand volley, don't be poaching as much on that side. You and I talked about that before trying to take that inside out backhand volley from the ad court at the net. It's just such a hard volley, teaching people how to play it correctly, get it back and then look to go on the second one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it seems like as well as you were just saying that I was thinking like it seems like most club players an error from the net seems to hurt worse than an error from the baseline. Psychologically, for some reason it does. Even though they're worth the exact same.

Speaker 2:

It's because, generally speaking, when you're at the net you think you're in the offense, so you should win that point. And also it happens quickly. If you have a 20 shot rally that loses, you feel good about yourself, whereas if you're up at the net, have a volley you miss. Oh, that's everyone shot. That wasn't fun. You know sort of a little bit of that aspect as well.

Speaker 1:

So let's say we take a 3-5 player and they come to you and they say Peter, you know I'm a pretty solid 3-5 player. My forehand and backhand are decent, my serve's okay. I'm just not very confident at the net. I'm not sure what to do up there. I'm gonna give you three months to work with me to improve my confidence and my skill set up there. How would you approach that? Where would you start?

Speaker 2:

I'd start on their positioning in doubles or where they volley from. I mean, you watch the pros now they're almost standing in the middle saying take me down the line and if you look at so many 3-5 players, their main goal is all cover the line, cover the line. So I'd work on positioning first and then, secondly, I'd be working on the way they cut the ball off because, again, so much of people at the net move laterally instead of diagonally to the ball. So you know, when you take that volley, it's gonna be. I want you moving this direction, this direction, versus laterally. And I'd also spend a lot of time on a first volley, the idea that you're gonna be. You know you've done your split step and you're moving as you actually hit that first volley when you're coming in. Because I think at that transitional stage, where a lot of players have difficulty, they don't make a great first volley and then when they do get the opportunity to put it away, they just, instead of going forward and ending up, you know, right on top of the net because they're so worried about the lob. That's why they move laterally. So I'd spend time on positioning, moving diagonally and a first volley where they're actually moving as they hit that first volley.

Speaker 2:

So years ago I used to watch Wimbledon when the grass wasn't quite as slow. They had a less rye in it. You know, there was a brown patch right behind the service line and a brown patch about six feet in front. The split step was at the first brown patch and then the volley was made and then the second brown patch was the second split step. And just emphasizing that. So that's where I'd start with most and look at what I did for years when I was coaching at the rack. I'm trying to give people that confidence and know what they should be trying to do, where they execute every time doesn't matter, but they get better and feel confident or they will have better results.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I like that, especially with the first volley. If you're able to execute that a little better and hit it a little bit cleaner, maybe with more depth or to the opponent's weakness, it makes the lob a lot more difficult for them right, so they don't have to worry about it as much.

Speaker 2:

Because that's at the three, five level. The lob is what everybody is worried about. I mean, and look a good lob. Mike and Bob Ryan lived on the lob return. You know they could hit it to within a foot of the baseline and a great lob is a great lob, no matter what level. And so that's when people get scared about it. So you got to emphasize it's okay to lose one or two. If you win seven or eight, then you win the match. Everybody tends to remember that time they got passed down the line on that lob went over their head.

Speaker 1:

Like hang on.

Speaker 2:

Let's think of it in the big picture.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So what's one or two of your favorite net play drills to kind of improve your hands?

Speaker 2:

Look, there's always the idea of starting two feet behind the service line and moving in on each other trying to force an error. So it's, a quick hands exercise Is one of the best exercises to do, just getting you used to that and also executing your shot. I also like, just as a pure volley exercise and I honestly I see it done so, I want to say poorly, but not emphasized enough I always do a three or four shot volley exercise where, again, where I'm feeding the ball this time and the person goes forehand, backhand, forehand, backhand, and by the last volley you're on top of the net. But so many people don't emphasize that to hit a great volley I've got to take my step into with my left foot, if it's fine, and my right foot will come around because of the momentum, and then I'll actually, you know, then cross over and so many times they take the step with the left foot and then they come back to a ready position and I emphasize the ability to move through the volley to hit a better volley and that's the other.

Speaker 2:

That's one of my sort of go to drills. Whenever I get people to do that, it's like oh wow, I didn't know that I, you know could actually in a sense go a little bit past the ball to hit a better volley and I'll get a weaker return for my opponent. So emphasizing that movement through the ball as well as the quick hands exercise are just two, I think, great exercises. One is technique based and the other is sort of live ball, real life based, which I believe you always have to have both those elements when teaching somebody.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so so for people listening, I want to make sure they get this. So the first one you can do this one on one or with four players, and it's just a live ball feeding drill. You're a foot or two behind the service line, the opponent or your partner is a foot or so behind the service line, you feed and you just play the point out with your volleys closing in to the net. Is that right?

Speaker 2:

This is being absolutely emphasis is being on closing in. You can start as far back as you would like to give you more room, because what tends to happen is people take two steps and stop moving, and I want one person to finish with their nose over the net Win or lose. If somebody is that close, then the drill has been executed, because I do see a lot where they will take two steps. They all get about a foot and side of the service on the stop. No, you got to. You got to keep going. You got to keep going and encourage that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you really have to push your comfort zone with that, and then your hands will develop over time as you improve your reaction time. The second one is it sounds like a feeding drill you need a coach or a basket of balls and they feed you a forehand back in, forehand back in, and you're moving forward as you hit the volleys.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. You can put a cone out there and your coach feeds the cone. You have to go on the outside of it each time. That is definitely a technique that is more coach simulated that you have to do on that one. But that is again always emphasizing two things Moving forward as you hit it and on technically making sure you move through the volley as you hit it. You watch an Edberg backhand volley back in the day. He takes that step with that right foot, the left one comes around and he's crossing over. That was back in those days. That was like floating on a cloud watching him in a backhand volley.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. All right, so that's all the strategy for today, Peter. This episode is going to be a little shorter than last year. I wanted to finish off with where people can go to get tickets and then also I know volunteers is a thing typically Talk a little bit about both of those items there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, look with all the tickets, dallasopencom you can get the ticket packages that you can look at the sessions that you would like to be a part of and go out and see it Again, remember, the worst seat is about 38 feet away from the court, so there's not a bad seat in the house. That's your worst seat. So, dallasopencom, and we are looking for volunteers. Again, it's on the website dallasopencom. One of the ones we're really looking for is some transportation drivers to pick up the players from the airport and also to take them around Dallas when they want to go to restaurants, which is always a fun thing is get that opportunity to sit in the car and talk to Francis or Tommy this year, or Ben and his dad. So we're always looking for those. And we've got ball kids. We're already covered on. Right now. We're loaded for our ball kids, but for some drivers who want to get to meet some of the players, that'd be a great place to sign up for it.

Speaker 1:

I can't believe that that's the one that you struggle to get, because I know people who have done it for, I think, for Dallas, for the WTA Finals here in Fort Worth, for the ATX Open last year, and everybody tells me it's so cool. Like everybody's like oh, I was in the car with I gave Anzja Borer ride to the airport and she was so nice and chatted with me and, like you get such good like one-on-one interactions and I can't believe that that's.

Speaker 2:

I think it's a little bit people sometimes a little bit scared of just the driving aspect. To be honest, I think that's it because, look, the interaction is terrific every driver we have is that's why they come. It's not because, okay, this is what I love to do is drive it. I get a chance to drive and chat with the players. I mean there's no doubt. I mean I look, I'll be honest, years ago, when John McEnroe came to Memphis, you know I took him back to the hotel that night. Now it was, you know, midnight, so it wasn't a whole lot for me to do. But you know, I enjoyed the chat with John and you know I'm able to talk a little bit of tennis things and stuff like that. So, look, I was, you know I was it for exactly the reason you said so, but I think it's just a little bit of the. You know they can be driving brand new BMWs around. So I think sometimes people for us sounds like a little worried about driving.

Speaker 2:

That brand new look. It's great once you figure out how to use the deadgum thing, I know, when I got it like it. Where's the mirror? How do I just the mirror, you know, but it's look. That's a fantastic job. And we, you know we helped out with footwork. Give some of them their drivers back care when the women's final was here, and yeah, that's that's a great job, but we'd love to have a few more in there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, awesome. So anybody listening, go apply to be a driver at Dallas opencom. All right, peter. Well, thank you a ton. I will see you here in several weeks for the Dallas open. Any final requests or thoughts for the audience?

Speaker 2:

Look, everybody, just come on out. Texas is a great state for tennis and we'd love to have everybody come out and enjoy some time out here, and you know we have a lot of great fun events going on. We're actually a couple of other things this year. You can bring in two 20 ounce coke bottles that are empty and you can get a Half-price ticket. We're doing some recycling recycling with them. We're also bringing, if you bring in some old tennis balls Bring in six old tennis balls You'll also get a half-price ticket where, because our lake hold courts not this year, but going forward we'll have a little bit of a slightly rubberized feel to it. So we're working our recycling efforts and this year our our SMU player, adam Ness, is getting the wild cut and Adam actually has had a great summer. He's got about 20 something points and he's got a big game. So Tuesday night with the college night could be a really, really big night. So be on the lookout for that one as well.

Speaker 1:

Cool, that's awesome. That sounds really exciting, awesome. Well, thanks again, peter for coming on and everyone listening. Check all of the information out at Dallas open, calm, appreciate it. Thanks, well, I.