Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Olivia Nicholls & Olivia Gadecki Interviews: ATX Open Doubles Champions

• Will Boucek • Episode 161

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Olivia Gadecki (deuce) is a 21-year-old Australian ranked 77 in the world in doubles and 140 in singles. Olivia Nicholls (ad) is the #81 ranked doubles player on the WTA Tour. The Olivia's won the 2024 ATX Open.

This episode includes our conversation from Saturday after they got a walkover in their semifinal match, followed by a few quick questions after their final victory before they had to rush to the airport for flights to their next events.

We discussed their quarterfinal win, how they used their off days to practice (including specific drills) and enjoy Austin, their partnership, and more.

  • Gadecki expresses gratitude towards her mentor, Ash Barty, while Nicholls explains how Heather Watson has made an impact on her doubles game.
  • Nicholls explains her use of analytics & scouting in doubles.
  • Gackecki also shares how she manages her doubles & singles schedule.

They also both talk about the differences between the ITF and WTA levels. You can tell from this conversation how strong their friendship has become, and that helped them take home the trophy in their 1st tournament together in Austin. At the end, you'll hear their thoughts on the final and how they made formation adjustments on their serves.

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Speaker 1:

You're about to hear two conversations with the 2024 ATX Open Doubles champions. Olivia Gedecki is a 21 year old Australian. She's ranked number 77 in the world in doubles and top 150 in singles. She plays in the Deuce Court, so I refer to her as Deuce Court Olivia in this conversation. And then ad court Olivia is Olivia Nichols.

Speaker 1:

She is number 81 in the world in doubles and we caught up with them on Saturday of the ATX Open. They were supposed to play their semifinal match. It got canceled. They got a walkover and they were into the finals at the time of this conversation. So on Saturday they practiced in the morning. They did a little exhibition match instead of their actual match since they got that walkover, and then we chatted with them for about 15 to 20 minutes. We discussed their quarterfinal win, where they played two really strong doubles players. We also talked about their days off, how they spent their time in Austin. We talked about practice, including some specific doubles drills that they worked on, and then we talked a lot about their partnership and their kind of tennis mentors and who's kind of guided them over the years. So Olivia Gedecki, being from Australia, talks a little bit about Ash Barty and then Olivia Nichols talks about how Heather Watson has made an impact on her. I also asked Olivia Nichols about the use of analytics and scouting in her doubles game. And then they talk a little bit about the differences between an ITF schedule and a WTA schedule and just kind of life managing their schedules, being professional tennis players, and of course, at the end we discuss how to make doubles more popular.

Speaker 1:

The second conversation is after their finals win. They actually had to rush to the Austin airport to catch some flights, so we only got three questions in. So that's a very, very short conversation, but you'll hear that at the very end of this. The first conversation is a little bit more in depth and a little bit longer, but regardless, I think you're going to really like these two and get a lot out of this conversation. So, without further delay, enjoy these two conversations with Olivia Gedecki and Olivia Nichols. So we've got the two Olivia's here. So I think what we're going to do is say do escort and adcourt Is that okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 1:

And I wanted to start in the do escort, because that's where we always start, and I want to give you two options for your first question. So, you can answer them both if you want. So the other day in your post match on court interview, you were asked about beating two Grand Slam champions and you said that we are legends off the court. So you can either tell us what that means or your Instagram profile says some would say otherwise. So you could tell us what that means. So you can pick one or answer both.

Speaker 3:

So because under my name it says athlete, and you know how you get all like so much hate after you lose or even when you win. And so like I just kind of messing around, a little and say oh some would say otherwise, but I'll answer the other one too, because they said in the interview they were too, which they are two legends on the court. So I just wanted to comment that we were two legends off the court.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, that's, yeah, sorry.

Speaker 1:

So you're into the finals. Obviously, you didn't get to play today, or at least not a real match. You played the exhibition match. Talk about just kind of the week so far. How you like, austin, and how the how the week's been.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, the weeks. It's been a great week. This is my first time in Austin, so I really enjoy it. Like the weather's been lovely, the crowd's been really great and we've had the tournaments put on such a great event, like we've had so much to do. We went to the soccer last Saturday, which was really fun. That was my first ever game, so Austin FC was quite cool to watch.

Speaker 1:

Adcourt said they need some new players. Right, we are.

Speaker 2:

Adcourt did say they need some new players, but I am used to watching the Premier League so maybe my standards are a bit high.

Speaker 1:

For the US. They are for soccer.

Speaker 3:

And then, yeah, obviously on court, we've had a really great week in the doubles. I managed to get a couple of singles matches, which was nice, but yeah, just really looking forward to tomorrow competing playing with Liv and, yeah, hopefully we get the W bar. Yeah, we'll just go out there and enjoy it.

Speaker 1:

I wanted to ask about the match the other day. So y'all won 6-3, 6-3 over a really strong team in Dan. Alina and Shuei Talk about kind of that match. Overall, what did you make of it? Any, yeah, ad court, deuce court. Either one Go ahead.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we got off to a bit of a fly, didn't we? I think we started really well and I think that maybe they were a little bit taken back at, kind of how fast we were playing and yeah, you were serving great, I was pretty clean around the net. So, yeah, we were combining well. And then there were a few little kind of stop-start moments with, like the weather and yeah, they decided to change sides, which was a bit of a curveball. Wasn't expecting that, but yeah, we managed to like ride out a few tough little moments. They start a second like a few side-bath juices and stuff like that. And then, yeah, got the job done in the end. I think it was a pretty strong performance.

Speaker 1:

What did practice look like the last few days? Because you had obviously in all these tournaments you'll have like a match and then maybe one or two days off and then another match. What does the practice look like for you all the last couple of days?

Speaker 2:

I'm trying to think what we've done. I mean, today we just, yeah, we found out we'd got a walkover, so we hit for like an hour and a half and then did the XO. Yesterday we played practice set and then did a little bit of specifics and, yeah, most of the time players are doing like a 30-minute warm-up Live. Juice Court Live is saying that the key to our success so far is within the hour and warm-up every day.

Speaker 1:

Don't give the secret away. We can edit that out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's a bit of a balance really Getting the points in, getting the hitting in and getting the specifics in.

Speaker 1:

Can you share some of the specifics you've worked on?

Speaker 2:

Well, I get live to nail a few balls out of the basket just at me, like fast out of the basket, like 10, 20. She's feeding hard fast at me at the net Conti grip.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Conti grip I've never heard that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let's not go there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so just keep my eyes and hands sharp at the net. Few serves to targets. I always like to do that, just to make sure I'm hitting my spots. Anything, you have probably less specifics than this.

Speaker 3:

I just do it.

Speaker 2:

She just goes through the motions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Wow, put me down like that.

Speaker 1:

We're still playing a lot of singles, right, so a lot of your practices might be singles focused.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, a lot of time it is, but it's also nice. In the doubles it can really benefit my singles just with all the volleying, the serving returning. So yeah, we do quite a bit of serving returning, which is great, and also lots of volleying down the line cross, even one, two drills trying to really work on putting those volleys away. Overheads are pretty important. We do quite a bit on that. But yeah, it chops and changes each session. We try and keep it fresh.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, today we think Liv was pretty fed up with the old short court warm-up so we went straight into this volley game, which is like I mean in the UK we call it high or die which is like a feed the full half court, so trams are in, you can hit short court or deep and you just feed it in and play it out and it's like fast hands could be a lob.

Speaker 1:

Wait, you're feeding from where?

Speaker 2:

You're both starting on the service line.

Speaker 1:

Service line okay.

Speaker 2:

Feed it in anything goes.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Just to yeah, In doubles alleys are in, you said.

Speaker 2:

Doubles alleys are in.

Speaker 1:

It seems like the first ball you'd be able to hit like a winner on right. Or do you feed it kind of low?

Speaker 2:

You can feed it anywhere. It's tough to hit a winner off in a half court.

Speaker 3:

Oh, half court. Yeah, See, like drop shot down or go at them.

Speaker 2:

Hard to the side.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you can do it, so you can feed however you want. Oh, okay, yeah, we used to play a game like that a long time ago.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

So talk about the partnership this is your first time playing together, right? How did this come to be? And obviously, talk a little bit about, like, what's worked so far in your first couple of matches.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's not. So I think yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just really good friends. I think off the court it plays a big part, and we've known each other for four years now. Liv's been there since when I started my journey on tour, so it's just nice to have a really friendly face around. We now live literally five minutes from each other in the UK, so, yeah, we're just really good friends. And then we've hit a bit like in the UK.

Speaker 2:

But how did this sort of I can't even remember if you asked me or if I asked you. We've been lining up for a while. I've been trying to play for a while but schedules haven't lined up. Whatever, you've gone somewhere else with singles or I've already been set. But yeah, we managed to make it happen here and then we're going to play again in Charleston at the 125 in a couple of weeks. So yeah, it's good that it's worked out.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I actually can't remember how.

Speaker 2:

I don't know either.

Speaker 1:

It's okay. Yeah, sorry it's all right, I want to get back to the ad court for a second. So the other day I was talking to Bibby and Shufs and she said that you really like tactics and analytics a lot, really. Yeah, because I was asking her about if she likes to scout opponents and go into stats and things like that. Why did she say that and how do you use analytics or scouting, or planning for matches?

Speaker 2:

Probably because I'm quite fortunate that we have an analyst at the LTA, the British Federation, so we've got a lot of videos of myself or the opponents that have been tagged so you can see, you get reports on them, you can watch their matches and see their serving preferences, their returning preferences, how active they are. So, yeah, I'd say I'm quite fortunate to have access to that data. I like to have it, a little bit of it, but I also don't want to be overloaded with it, because I think every match can be so different and can be dependent on who's down the other end of the net.

Speaker 2:

So, it's good to have a little bit, you know, to have a feeling of opponents' preferences and stuff, but don't want to be bombarded by information.

Speaker 1:

Got it Okay. Yeah, I didn't realize. I didn't know if the LTA does that for the WTA players. I know the men get a lot of that as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think the men are getting a lot because there's so many guys that are in like the top 10, top 20, they're getting. They'll get sent basically a report before every match they play on their opponents. We don't quite get that.

Speaker 1:

I have to kind of dig a little, dig a little myself.

Speaker 2:

But that's fine. Yeah, just use that information as best I can.

Speaker 4:

So you mentioned that you're based in the UK also. Is that you know, being an Australian? Is that a strategic decision, just to have a more centralized home base, or how did you end up in the UK?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I was like that. I was. I've been living out of a suitcase for the last three years and like I'd only go back home once a year to see my family and so and I was just starting to struggle, like I said, living out of a suitcase, I was injured and got quite sick a couple of times last year and the fact that I had nowhere to go got a little down about that and I knew I had to change it as soon as I could, because I think if I were to leave it a little bit longer, I don't know how long I'd be really playing the sports. It takes quite a toll. So I thought I'd take that leap and and yeah, I'm surrounded by some pretty awesome people.

Speaker 4:

So they've taken me under under their wing.

Speaker 3:

Oh, they really have. I'm so, so lucky. Everyone at the LTA have really been so warm and welcoming and, yeah, I'm extremely grateful.

Speaker 4:

Both of you come from tennis countries or countries with a very rich tennis history, especially in doubles too, with so many good Aussie doubles legends and and UK doubles legends, and you mentioned the LTA, so talk about what it's like just coming up, you know, through the LTA in tennis Australia, and then also have there been mentors or older players who've kind of taken you under their wing along the way?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean I think is yeah, Liv's training there as well. We're both training at the NTC in London and the majority of British players are training there. So you're going in every day surrounded by you know great players that are all pushing each other along with really high standards and, yeah, I think it creates a really nice atmosphere for training and everyone can try and push on in terms of people taking us under their wing.

Speaker 2:

I'd say Heather Watson's been huge for me in the last kind of year. Like got to know her really well when I played to Fed Cup for the first time. Played with her at the end of last year and she's just a great character, isn't she Really nice girl on and off the court? Yeah, she's been a huge support for me, Really wanting the best for me and, yeah, enjoyed my time playing with her and yeah, lucky to have her as a friend. So I'd say she's probably been the main person that's helped me in the last kind of six months to a year to feel confident on the court and I belong at the highest level.

Speaker 3:

Not sure if I can top that. Go, heather. Yeah, I mean, like you said, I'm very lucky to be able to be a part of 10 Australia and their program and we've had a lot of great players come through that. And I know I talk about Ash a lot, but she was my main mentor for a long time and she was unreal and she still mentors me now. Whenever I need anything or any advice or always go to her. But yeah, I mean there's other players like Liv. A lot of the UK, british girls have really taken me under their wings since moving and I played a lot of doubles with them and they're all a little bit older than me, so they always give me advice and help me out with anything. So I'm really grateful to them for that.

Speaker 4:

Last question for me. Both of you have had a lot of success on the ITF circuit and over the last couple of years have been playing more and more WTAs and Grand Slams. So talk about the difference in competition or experience from a player's point of view, adjusting to more WTAs and big matches at the Slams.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think the main difference is getting the balance. We're at that sort of ranking where it's quite hard to get into those WTAs but it's also if we play down we don't really get much sort of points rewards. So it's finding that balance, being quite on it with entries and all that sort of stuff, especially like I'm more of a singles player, so I try and put singles first, but obviously I love playing doubles. So whenever I can I try and play. But yeah, I guess over time you just get build up a tolerance of all those dealing with nerves and playing at that high level. But yeah, I think just over time you just get used to it. Some days it's a bit more overwhelming, like today, but yeah, I think you just gotta be present and enjoy the hardship that comes with it, but it's also, like I said, very rewarding. So yeah, Same question.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I think last year I had quite a bit of success at ITF level. Maybe didn't do as well at WTA. Yeah, and it's definitely a balancing act. I think the biggest thing is like at WTA level well, I speak from doubles, not so much singles, but like the margins are so small that if you're gonna win those tough matches you've gotta like take it into your own hands, you've gotta make it happen. I think sometimes, like maybe a little bit last year was a little bit kind of like hopeful that it's gonna happen or it's actually like no, you've gotta go make it happen. You know they're not gonna give you an inch, whereas maybe at ITF you might get a cheap point here and there you just don't get that WTA, so you've gotta go make it happen.

Speaker 2:

And then, even though I'm a bit of a veteran, I'm still relatively inexperienced because, yeah, I was a bit late to the tour, like going to uni and stuff. So, yeah, I feel like I'm still learning. To be honest, and yeah, there's a few things last year in terms of, like, getting the schedule right, as you say, very difficult, made the decision to like go to US Open ended up being like one or two out and then went straight to Japan from there but hadn't got China visa sorted and then the only option was to go to Guadalajara, and then your time zones are just so messed up. So I feel like, yeah, it's all still, you know, a big learning curve and I think with every week you learn something new that you can try and use to help you for the rest of the year. And, yeah, just try and get better with every week that goes by.

Speaker 1:

So last question this one's, I think, more of an ad core question, but you can both take it if you'd like how can we make doubles more popular?

Speaker 2:

That's a really good question I think we need to get some answers to, because I don't know if you saw the article that Jamie wrote recently. It was a bit worrying.

Speaker 3:

I think for a start. I think he's scheduling.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you go. Oh, I think that was his main point. Yeah, his main point.

Speaker 3:

Well, I didn't read, I didn't see that article, but I think I'm coming from like a singles player sort of point of view and I think even this week, like I'm, per my calculations, I'm one out at Indian Wells but I've got a doubles final tomorrow and quality start tomorrow, and there's we're scheduling like we're not before 4pm but the last flight to Palm Springs from here is 8.30. And like it's I don't think I'm going to make that flight. So I'm flying Monday morning to play on the same day, if I, if I do get in. But it's like just little things like that where I think singles players I'm not saying that people would watch more doubles if singles players were playing, or but people like me wouldn't play doubles this week because scheduling like that, like if I had a known in advance I probably wouldn't have played. So I think it's just like little things like that.

Speaker 2:

I personally watch a lot of doubles. I don't know if it's because I play it and I'm interested in it, but yeah, I already watch a lot of doubles. So I don't know if the crowds I don't know from your experience they just like prefer to watch singles, or is it to do with, like, yeah, like the format of it. I mean, I think it makes it more entertaining with, like, the sudden death juice and the Thai race can change so quickly. But yeah, I, I don't know, I don't really have an answer because I, I actually probably.

Speaker 1:

I don't think there's like one answer yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I, I enjoy it. I think mixed doubles is brilliant and I think that needs to be looked after, because you know how many people were tuning in to watch United Cup. I know that like everyone was loving it, right. You know the deciding mixed rubbers. You got like Eager and her cats playing together and teams like that. It's really entertaining. So I think, keep mixed doubles, mixed doubles going and then, yeah, working on the scheduling, we get shot of the the four minute warm up and just get get cracking. I think that's always a bit boring for the fans, like waiting for us to warm up and, you know, a bit faster at the changeovers, just little things like that. I don't know. We don't need to be sat down as long as we are doing right now.

Speaker 3:

I think we need a 20 seconds. I was saying it was so slow.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, and I think I do think the biggest one is scheduling like for me as well, you know, on a finals day how, how you're putting doubles after singles doesn't make sense to me. I feel like doubles should be on first bit of a warm up for the main event. You're going to get bigger crowds if you have the doubles first. If you have singles first, everyone watch singles final and then probably a few people stick around for the doubles maybe.

Speaker 2:

But I think make the biggest one is to do a scheduling. Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people agree with you. Yeah, awesome, all right.

Speaker 1:

We'll be your president, come on. You say that it's the net fraction.

Speaker 2:

I think we've going to be the last ones to do that all day.

Speaker 1:

Also, I think it's times that you put yourowym down. Okay, you're going to get a 20 minute maybe to clock them out. Okay, maybe حمV got it before Other way.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for coming on, thanks for having us, thanks for having us.

Speaker 1:

So next is the short conversation after they won in the finals they won 6-2-6-4. They were actually down 4-0 in the first set. So I asked them kind of what they made of the match and what happened as far as the momentum swings. I also asked about eye formation, the use of eye versus regular. They shared some thoughts on what was working and what they saw during the match to make some of those adjustments. And then Hanlon asked them about their plans for the next month or so. So this is a very short conversation but I wanted to include this in the podcast episode. So enjoy this final chat with the Olivia's. Alright, I know y'all got it wrong. Just quick thoughts on the match. Overall there was a lot of ups and downs. You got down 0-4 in the second set, then went 6-0.

Speaker 3:

Go on, you guys. Yeah, I thought going into the final I was a little bit nervous about how you lived. But yeah, I thought we played a solid first set. We did the fundamentals really well. In the second set we had a little bit of a mental lapse, I thought for a couple of games there, but we kept it really simple, went back to our simple game plan and managed to hang in there and yeah, really happy with how we competed and had really fun time out there.

Speaker 1:

So, really happy with the win. Adcourt, you used a lot of eye formation and regular and mixed it up. Was there kind of a strategy or thought process behind that, or were y'all just trying to just give them different looks on when you used it? I guess specifically.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think we started using eye more and then I think I had a good idea of the patterns that I wanted to use going into it and then I think they kind of knew that and kind of prepared for what they thought we were going to do. So that's why we went back to using regular a little bit more and, yeah, I think that actually helped us turn it around a little bit from four to two.

Speaker 4:

What do the next few weeks look like for both of you on scheduling wise, and will we see Team Olivia back reunited at some point?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we were actually Liv, tell me about your next 24 hours.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I got ahead to Indian Wells tonight. I got a flight about an hour and a half-ish and, yeah, I'll play Qolley's tomorrow, so we'll play there, or I'll play there, and then Liv and I will head to Charleston, depending. But that's our next sort of tournament, the 125. Yeah, the 125. And then after that it's sort of Not sure, Awesome.

Speaker 1:

Okay, congrats Thanks y'all Good luck.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much.