Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Rajeev Ram & Joe Salisbury Interview from the Miami Open

• Will Boucek • Episode 173

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0:00 | 18:23

Joe Salisbury and Rajeev Ram are 3-time reigning US Open Champions. I spoke with them in Miami after their second round 7-5 7-6 victory over Stefanos Tsitsipas and Thanassi Kokkinakis.

Adam Ross from Florida Tennis joined me for this interview.

We asked the US Open champs about the match, including a specific tactic they kept going to that I picked up on. They talked about team chemistry and if they think it helps them early in the season, and how to play doubles vs singles players.

You'll hear Adam ask them about training for no-ad or pressure points and what club players can learn by watching the pros. Rajeev's answer to this has nothing to do with tennis and is something all doubles players should hear.

Joe also shares his thoughts on what doubles needs to become more popular.


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Miami Open Doubles Interview With Players

Speaker 1

You're about to hear another short interview from the Miami Open, this time with Rajiv Ram, who's been on the podcast several times at this point, but this time I'm able to get his doubles partner, joe Salisbury, on, so they're both top 10 doubles players right now. They won the US Open last year. They've actually won the US Open for three years in a row now, so they've been really a staple on the men's doubles tour for a while. And in this conversation, adam from Florida Tennis Magazine actually joins me, so you're going to hear him ask a few questions as well. And if you're not familiar with these post-match interviews or if you haven't listened to me explain it in the past, how this works is I actually submit requests at the beginning of each day of the tournament to the ATP and WTA requesting player interviews, and nine times out of 10, I'm the only one that's requesting these interviews for the winner of a particular doubles match. But in all of these Miami interviews that you've listened to, we've got one more to go that's going to be coming out tomorrow. I believe I'm the only one interviewing the players, but in this one there was someone else, and that is Adam from Florida Tennis Magazine, so it was good to see someone else covering the doubles a little bit and trying to promote the doubles, and they actually ended up sitting down with me and I did an interview with Adam myself that they post on their website, which I'll link to in the show notes if you want to check that out. So they were really really nice with their time.

Speaker 1

But in this conversation with Raj and Joe, we talk about their match that they had just won over Stefano Tsitsipas and Kokonakis and we talk a little bit about the mindset and the tactics that it takes to play two really good singles players versus playing a doubles team. There was a specific thing that I noticed during the match where they were taking their first volley to Kokunaka's backhand and then they started to volley through the middle when they were both up at the net. So I asked them a little bit about that. We also talk about team chemistry, how it helps having played together for so long and how that affects their matchups early in the season. We talk about changes potentially coming to the doubles tour. We talk about how they play differently versus singles players, which I mentioned. We talk about how to train for no add and pressure points. I really liked their answer to that a lot. And then you At the end, adam asked what can club level players learn by watching the pros?

Improving Doubles Tennis Popularity

Speaker 1

And Rajiv Ram's answer to this is fantastic. It has nothing to do with tennis and it is something that we should all really take into our own game and apply to our own game and try to implement out on the court with our doubles partner. So definitely stay till the end and listen to his answer to that. So, without further delay, enjoy this 10-minute or so post-match interview with Rajiv Ram and Joe Salisbury. I wanted to just get your thoughts on the match overall. Obviously, two really good singles players, pretty tight match. What was kind of the difference or some of the key differences?

Speaker 2

Yeah, it was a very tight match. Uh, what was kind of the difference or some of the key differences? Um, yeah, it was very tight match. Um, I think it didn't didn't come down to much. I think we, yeah, we played some good, some good points on their, on their serve to to get get a couple breaks, um, but yeah it was. It was tough conditions. It was pretty windy. I think everyone served, served pretty well, so it was tough to tough to get into the, into the return games at times. Um, but yeah, we, we just did well to play well at the end of the set. So we got the break, uh, and the first set and then we played a few really good points in the in the tie break as well, and the second set.

Speaker 3

Same question. Yeah, yeah, I don't have much more. I thought we stuck together. The other thing is we obviously play together as a team. I think that is a big difference in some of these matches is we just know each other obviously at this point quite well, and I think that helps in these tight situations.

Speaker 4

You guys are more than welcome to pick. If you both want to answer, sure, it's up to you. I thought the, if I'm remembering this correctly, the 6-5 game that propelled it to 6-6. What do you remember about that particular game? Do you remember that game?

Speaker 2

Yeah, he missed it pretty bad, oh yeah.

Speaker 3

That was that game.

Speaker 2

What's that. Yeah, he missed that shot on top of the net. What?

Speaker 2

was the score I think it was 40-30 so that would have taken it to juice. But they probably pretty good game they made. I think they made every, maybe made every return that game. So yeah, it was a tough one to get out of to get to the tie break but get out of to get to the tiebreak. But yeah, I think we stayed pretty tough because I thought they started playing better and better. They were serving really well, so it's that and they were starting to make more returns. So yeah, we did well to just kind of hang in there and then play well in the tiebreak.

Speaker 4

And how do you do that mentally? I'm sorry I meant to jump in, You're good.

Speaker 3

I mean, I think it's something we talk about a lot, we are aware of it and I think it's a big deal, especially in the doubles. You know before a tiebreaker, that you need to raise the energy and raise the sort of enthusiasm on your side and maybe the physicality that you never know when it's. You know you're going to have a chance. And I think even that game we had a point where it was like I think it was 15-all, where, yeah, steph had a good return, joe made a great first volley, a good close and like the ball went over the head and then yeah anyway.

Speaker 3

So those points, you know those points sometimes come down to just a little bit more enthusiasm.

Speaker 1

It's not really about the tennis at that point, and sometimes those breakers are like that. So one thing I noticed is you're taking most of your first volleys to Kokonaka's backhand and then, once you got to the net, it seemed like you were playing through the middle a lot, which obviously is a good double strategy in general. But do you feel like it's even more important to do that and not give these singles guys, who are so good from the baseline, an angle to to get by you, or is there something else to that?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean obviously those two guys they've got great forehands, especially, so we're going to try and avoid that as much as possible. And yeah, it kind of depends a bit where the space is on the court, but obviously, yeah, playing through the middle is good play and kind of they've got less court to work with with from there. Um, so yeah, like you said, it's a bit of a bit above and then raj at 4-3 in the tiebreaker.

Speaker 1

Um, you had kind of a wild point where you ended up back and you had a ground stroke both opponents are back and you had the option there to go cross to kokanakas backhand and you actually went down the line to sitzi pas forehand, which kind of surprised me and I think maybe it surprised them too. Um, and he missed it in the net. Was that something that you did just to mix it up, or was?

Speaker 3

there. I remember that when I didn't really go to his forehand, I kind of just went, I tried to go through the middle and he he I. I feel like he kind of stepped around that one a little bit I didn't hit it huge, but yeah, I wasn't purposely trying to go to his forehand, but I was just trying to play through the middle a little bit more on that one, because the same reason was that they're both back. That seemed to put us in a better spot especially Joe to get involved in that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I was sitting in the middle, so maybe I didn't have an angle for that.

Speaker 3

Yeah, well, I might have hit it there. I didn't mean to hit it there, okay guys.

Speaker 4

From a big picture standpoint, you guys have had just enormous success and you seem to have an unbelievable chemistry out there. Um, do you attribute that to just hard work? Are you good friends off the court? How do you, how do you attribute that amazing chemistry that you guys have out there?

Speaker 3

I mean, I think I attribute it to all of that. You know, know, I think there's definitely a, you know, when you're a doubles team, there is an off-the-court component to it. You know, I mean, this is our sixth year together. We spend a lot of time together, so I think it's important to get along well, which we do and communicate, and you know, know, when it's time to sort, do your own thing a little bit, I think some of that's, yeah, pretty important. I think it is a big reason why we've had some of the big success that we haven't had.

Speaker 2

You're welcome if you want to yeah, I think we just know the importance of it, I mean it's it's a big, big part of doubles, um, how well you kind of play as a team and how you interact with your partner. It affects, affects the game a lot. It affects how you play, how your partner plays. So I think we just make sure we do that really well because we know that it gives us a big advantage if we do that better than our opponents.

Promoting Doubles Tennis and Mental Toughness

Speaker 1

Do you feel like that has an advantage early in the year, since these other teams are still trying to find their chemistry, or maybe it's even a disadvantage, because y'all are playing maybe the same people, but new teams that you've never faced as partners before.

Speaker 3

I don't know if we really thought about it too much, I guess. I just know that I feel like if we do that well, it's always an advantage for us. So, regardless of who's on the other side I mean, it could be singles, guys that don't play much, it could be a new team, it could be a veteran team but I just feel like if we communicate and interact well and have good team energy, it gives us the best chance to win.

Speaker 1

Any thoughts on. Obviously there's a lot of conversation going on on the tour with potential changes over the next few years. Rajiv, you and I have talked about how to make doubles more popular.

Speaker 2

Joe, I've never talked to you about this, but if you can share just your thoughts on what needs to change in doubles to make it more popular, and then Rajiv, if you want to comment on anything that is going on on the tour that you've heard that you'd like to see over the next couple of years.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the main things is just the marketing of it. I think a lot of people enjoy watching doubles. I think, as you saw, I mean we had a great crowd out there. I mean, obviously a lot of them came to see Cisvas and Kokanakis and I think people like seeing, like the people they know, so obviously the, the big names and the singles, the people know a lot more. But I think if they promoted the doubles more people got to know the doubles players a bit more and promoted the matches, then I think people would want to watch it more than they do. So I think that's definitely a big thing. But yeah, as for other stuff, I guess yeah, I haven't thought about it too much, but I'd say how much they kind of promote it is one of the main things.

Speaker 3

Number one yeah, for me. I think, yeah, I think. That's it. I think people like to watch people they know and they've heard of and.

Speaker 3

I think it would be great if we could get a little bit more of that in the doubles. In terms of the players, you tell their stories and tell people where they came from and how they got to where they got to. I think that's pretty important. As far as what I've heard, I've heard a lot of things. Is it a split? Is there going to be a different tour? Is it going to be a premier tour? Is it going to be not much change? I can't really say that I know anything. I think I'm in the dark, just like everyone else, but I've definitely heard a lot of things and you've seen that with some other sports as well as influences from other places. So I think it's going to be an interesting 12 months.

Speaker 4

You guys have touched on this. You're an elite doubles team and you're going against guys who are not traditional doubles players, necessarily I mean, kokonakis has had some success. But do you go in with a different mindset when you're playing a non-traditional doubles team, or is it just find the weakest link when you're out there?

Speaker 2

I mean not really a different mindset in terms of the people, that we're playing more just in terms of the tactics. I're playing more just in terms of the tactics. I mean obviously they play play differently. Most of the singles guys. They certainly stay back. Yeah, they're at the back of the court more than they're at the net. So that's the main, main difference and that means we need to do things a little bit differently ourselves. But I think, yeah, we know that, know that when we play our game and play our way and play kind of how we want to play rather than how they would like it to go, then we give ourselves the best chance and that we can. Yeah, I think that often the doubles played well often beats the singles players how they play, but obviously you need to do it well.

Speaker 4

I was going to ask you do you feel the same way doubles played well beats those singles players?

Speaker 3

I do yeah, I think these tournaments are a great whatever a great way to prove that because a lot of the singles players do play in these events, but quite often it is the doubles guys that do win it. I understand in the Grand Slams we don't have as many singles guys playing, but these ones you do, and most of the time you see the doubles teams that are at the end of it.

Speaker 1

That's all I got.

Speaker 4

Thanks guys, I just had one more, if you don't mind. There's no ad scoring. So many of these elite doubles matches like you guys are playing come down to like one or two points. Can you train for that? Or is it just like again, hard work and practice? I mean, you guys know instinctively this is the big point usually. Can you train for that?

Teamwork in Tennis Strategy

Speaker 3

I think you can. I think one of the things we do is we actually like compete a lot in practice. We make it, we score. It's not just you're out there hitting balls, you're out there trying to win a game. I mean, we all know that those deuce points are huge and I think the more you can practice with a purpose, the more it helps.

Speaker 4

And finally, do you feel the same way?

Speaker 2

by the way, yeah, I think so I mean, it's obviously tough to replicate exactly how it is in a match in terms of the pressure and the importance of one point. But yeah, I think you kind of treat it like when you're in your moment in the match it's kind of just treating it like another point and kind of thinking that it like another boy in the world and I'm kind of thinking it's bigger than any other one.

Speaker 4

Lastly, guys, and thank you for your time, so many club players play doubles and they come out and watch you guys. What do you think, at their level, they can take away from your level?

Speaker 3

I mean, I think the biggest thing that we all have in common is the fact that we try and set a good environment for our partner, which is something that's got nothing to do with tennis. It's got nothing to do with serves and returns and forehands and backhands, but like if you're a club player and you're out there and your partner misses a shot and you hang your head like how do you think they're going to feel? They're probably not can to provide that environment for your partner.

Speaker 3

I get this question all the time and it's never about tennis, because obviously there's a decent gap between the levels, but that is not something that should be any different. I don't think.

Speaker 4

Do you feel the same way, joe?

Speaker 2

Yeah, definitely agree with that, and I think, in terms of playing wise, I think people, yeah, maybe play. It's like they have two people on a court playing separately rather than playing as a team. So I think often you should be trying to hit shots to set your partner up. You might be hitting a serve so that they have a volley that they can knock off, or you hit a return so that they have a tough shot so that your partner can get involved.

Speaker 2

so it's kind of playing so that, yeah, you can set yourself up or your partner up for the next shot, rather than trying to just win it on your own. Guys, thank you so much. Thanks, guys, and really best of luck.