Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Bethanie Mattek-Sands & Sofia Kenin Interview from Toronto

• Will Boucek • Episode 192

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0:00 | 15:38

This is a post-match interview with Bethanie Mattek-Sands and Sofia Kenin from the National Bank Open in Toronto. We spoke with them after a very close victory where they saved six match points.

Bethanie and Sonya share insights into their strategies and conversations during the match, including how they stayed positive when down a set and a break. These two are a ton of fun to listen to because they're so transparent with their game plans and love to talk strategy.

Shout out to Mike McIntyre from the Match Point Canada podcast for the cover photo for this one.

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Doubles Strategy and Communication

Speaker 1

This is another conversation from the National Bank Open in Toronto and this one is with Bethany Maddox-Sands and Sophia Kinnan, and if you've listened to the podcast for a while, you may remember that I interviewed them after a match down in Miami earlier this year where they went on to win the tournament, and these are two of really my favorite interviewees I guess you would call it after matches because they give so much insight, especially Bethany. They give so much insight into what their practices look like, what their strategy looks like, what their conversations look like during the match, and it's really really valuable stuff that you can kind of take away and apply to your own game. So we caught up with them after a very, very tight victory where they actually faced six match points. So they were down a set, they were down a break, they were down 1540 on the opponent's serve in the second set, which was triple match point because of the no ad scoring of course, and we talked about how they kind of overcame that and Bethany actually has some really good advice that she told or shared with Sophia early on in that second set when things weren't going their way. And then we also talk about opponents game plans.

Speaker 1

So it seems like most opponents seem to target Sophia when they both get to the net, and we talked about how they handle that. So that can be helpful for you if you ever play a match and you're maybe the weaker net player, or your partner is the weaker net player, and opponents seem to pick on one person. Obviously, sophia is not a super weak net player super weak net player but with Bethany's resume it seems like, at least on the doubles court, it seems like most opponents seem to target Sophia a bit more, and that was definitely the case in this match. So they shared some advice on that. And then we talked with Bethany about how she adjusts to playing with new partners, as well as their goals for the rest of the year. They're definitely on pace to potentially make the year end finals. So, without further delay, enjoy this brief conversation with Bethany Maddox-Sands and Sophia Kinnan. All right, so six match points saved.

Speaker 2

Oh damn.

Speaker 1

Four, six, seven, six.

Speaker 4

No, I did not know that.

Speaker 3

One of them was wasn't it love 40 at one point I know it was 40-15.

Speaker 1

It was 40-15 on their serve yeah which is triple match point in this Nevada format. Describe the match for us.

Speaker 4

A roller coaster? I didn't know that.

Speaker 3

It's probably good that you didn't know that yeah.

Speaker 2

I mean I knew there were match points in there, but at some point you just play the strategy and play the shot that you have. I feel like the weather did a 180. That team is a tricky team. I've played them separately but this is the first time I've played them playing together and it's a tricky team. I think they both came out sort of ready to poach and play aggressive and the courts are fast here. So I feel like it's really rewarding the team that can be aggressive and I feel like that's what we're able to do and it's why, you know, I called a lot of I formations and things like that. I feel like when the court is fast, the more you can kind of mix it up. It takes away from your opponents kind of knowing what you're going to do, sonia.

Speaker 4

I mean, yeah, everything that Bobby said, but yeah, it was very up and down and a very tough match. They're great players, they had a great week in Washington and yeah, I mean we had to really come up with something to win. And the fact that we save six match points just shows how like we're strong together and we never give up. And um, yeah, I mean we fought till the end and it paid off.

Speaker 2

I forget at which point in the match I was like doubles can change at any point. It wasn't on one of the match points, but it was before that or something yeah, I was like let's just keep going like doubles. It just has a way of like one point can change the momentum and that's kind of the attitude I take, no matter what, even when you're up down, like it's just something you have to be flexible with.

Speaker 4

But I remember saying that to you. I remember in a second I was like I know, I know I'm still playing, like not a job that makes sense, because 10-1 in the third set breaker like well, that's usually surprising for doubles. Because, because usually tiebreakers, it's always two points here and there but yeah, I felt like at eight love, but then he hit that seven love return.

Speaker 3

I was like okay, I mean there's no way we're going to lose Massive inside out forehand.

Speaker 4

I tried to do something again and then I missed it. Yeah, I bet you missed it by like it clipped the tape, but if it would have gone in it would have been a sickly turn as well, I was like okay.

Speaker 1

After the match you kind of bowed and worshipped. Why did you do that?

Speaker 4

I feel like that's what I always do. She always does that. I always do that to her and I try to give it back to her.

Speaker 2

I feel like she it's funny, because I feel like she doesn't always give herself credit for how good of a doubles player she is, so I like to, exactly so I like to.

Speaker 3

Backhand praise.

Speaker 2

Boost her confidence because she really she sees the court very well, Her volleys are very good. I mean you out-volleied a few times.

Speaker 4

I know A few times today, I think his coach, adam, told us before the tiebreak like maybe put me back at the baseline. And I'm like before the tiebreak, maybe put me back at the baseline.

Speaker 2

And I'm like no, no, I want to be at the net today. I was like no, I want her up there.

Speaker 4

I was like are you sure? I think it's been working well? And he's like no, whatever. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to be at the net. I wasn't too comfortable from the baseline today. No, it was.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think, and that's kind of why I do that at the end of the match, because really she's a great doubles player and, like I said, she can set me up at net, which is, I mean, that's part of doubles is how well you play with your partner and how you can share the energy, and I've kind of always talked about that through my career, and Sonia is one of these players that's always feisty, doesn't matter what the score is, and she's always up for calling a play um, even if it's something that today I was off a few times, but it's like no, we're gonna do this, like okay, like and I think so.

Speaker 4

You tried to call something and she told you no a few times I was like okay, there was a couple, so that's when you know she's like in the zone. So I'm like, okay, like, because the only time I would do.

Speaker 2

It is like if she uh, you know, was, maybe I'm going to go wide on this serve and I'm seeing something at net that the returner is doing. So I felt like if she was serving to the tee. That backhand was going down the line to me and I want it to come to me. So that was the only time I think I'd change you, because I was ready for that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I was like okay, I trust that piece, otherwise I actually like, like you were the one saying go tee, I'm going to be ready for that.

Speaker 4

Well, that was in the second set. I was like, okay, I've got to get my, and so I actually I'll go with that.

Speaker 2

then, if she's really looking for that at the net, even if I felt like I wanted to go wide on that shot because she's amped up for it and ready for that next shot, I'm going to go with that play. I'm going to go with that play.

Speaker 4

So I feel like that's how we're good at communicating. We're good, we're both calling plays. I was going to ask about your volleys specifically because you were Our volleys.

Speaker 1

Yeah especially like late second set and then in the match tie break there were a few points where you all both get to the net and I imagine most teams are like this right, they're like okay if they both get to the net, like we're gonna go at sonia because bethany's the double splitter right, like uh.

Speaker 1

but I feel like that can at times backfire because, like you get into a rhythm because you're getting so many reps so do you feel that as well and then does that kind of throw you off sometimes, because sometimes you get the volley and you're like I haven't had to volley in.

Speaker 4

Like three games. Sometimes I'm like can they fall, can they hit a bat?

Speaker 1

Not that they need your hands.

Speaker 4

But today I was laser ready and I felt really comfortable, so I was like okay, it's coming at me.

Speaker 2

And I think you can kind of plan for that right.

Speaker 2

I sometimes know that if I'm making a play call where we're both going to be at net, I'll even tell someone to be ready. I think they're going to pick on you and at some point, if they're losing too many points going to her, they might go to me. So I'm always ready, no matter what. But you just kind of like know the momentum of the game and when you need points and are just going on percentages of where you think they're going to hit it and so, um, you know, I, she's, she's ready. That's why, like she's, she has great reflexes. Um, I think, only a couple times I just I, I I mentioned just to keep split stepping forward. Right, there's times where, if points go fast, as a net player you maybe have a little tendency just to like back step, not necessarily like back pedal, but just almost split step Back. Yeah.

Speaker 4

And I'm like split step forward.

Speaker 2

And I was like and you're there, right and so, but that's, I mean, that's really kind of all the cues I give out there.

Speaker 4

I get a T close and I'm like got it Every once in a while.

Speaker 2

Emphasis on the close Every once in a while I just know you know, especially deeper in the match you start to get um their tendencies down on where they're returning and I'll tell sonia to close when I really feel like they're going up the middle, so it's like cut that middle off, and I'll even say, hey, take that middle, um and um, especially based on where I'm serving. So I think that's something where, um, I gotta give sonia a lot of credit. She listens to me a lot I know I listen to her.

Speaker 4

I'm like alright, alright.

Speaker 2

So I'm just like kind of rambling out there and I was like, I think, my eye, what I'm seeing, is right, I think.

Speaker 3

I know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2

But it also helps to have someone that's like, believes in the plays and, you know, believes in the game and like, and then we play matches.

Speaker 4

How many times have we played? Never, not once I know, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1

I'm not saying we are, I'm saying we never know it's good, I mean you do see a lot of like singles players who don't want to run the formations and don't want to like. They're not, as like, open to feedback all the time, so it's definitely I mean you deserve credit for it.

Speaker 4

I'm very comfortable. I and Abu, Dhabi, even this year. Put me away from the net You're comfortable with it.

Speaker 2

You've gotten a lot more comfortable, though. I mean today you were like, no, I'm closing. I was like look out Sonya's telling me I was like okay, I was like I got the lob.

Speaker 3

Bethany, what's your process when you're playing with the new? I know you aren't new partners, but you've played with a lot of partners throughout your career a lot of success. Is there any element of winging it or is there always kind of a process that you follow in terms of who's calling the plays or what the approach is before each?

Speaker 2

match. I think it comes down to communication. I mean, going into a match let's say it's a new partnership I'll have an idea of what their strengths are. So the first thing that you do is you're trying to set everyone up so that they're on their strengths. So if someone has a big serve, let's say they're starting to serve all the time, let's say they, even if they had a stronger backhand return, they want to play the backhand side. I'd be willing to switch and let's see how that works from that side. And I think it's about sort of gaining that confidence and figuring out what those confidence plays are with your partner, because then the more you can call them, the more positioning that you can put yourself in there. If someone likes it down the line rally, like a lot of times, what we do I know she likes those down the line rallies and she can, she's always open to those loves is, I'll call it a play where we cross, and so she can start those down the line rallies. That makes our opponents comfortable.

Podcast Luck for Winning Tournaments

Speaker 2

So it's really just about figuring out what strengths your partner has and sort of setting each other up, and then, once you get more comfortable, you can try different things. I mean, you're up 40 love, let's go for something that we wouldn't normally go for and we can take a little risk. And then I'll usually balance out if they want to call plays, or I'll just make suggestions the whole time and eventually they'll either give me an idea of what they want to do. If they're 100% sure of something, they'll say something, and if they want me to make the play call, I'm always ready to make the play call.

Speaker 3

Talk about your year so far as a doubles team. You've got a couple of big titles. Wta finals look like they could be within reach. If that's a goal for you guys like how does how's?

Speaker 4

2024, shaping up big picture. I mean, I have a career high. That was ranking. I think it's good and, of course, the finals is something that I obviously would love to make and, yeah, the better we play. It's in saudi this year, which would be super cool.

Speaker 2

obviously it's the first year it's there, so I would love to one just visit, um visit and see what's going on over there. But you know year-end championships is always in the cards, I mean it's. You know you get rewarded for doing well as a team through the whole year and I feel like you know we've been building momentum, tournament to tournament. So it's definitely out there on the horizon.

Speaker 1

Awesome. I think that win put you all at at 8th in the live race. Alright, I mean there's a lot of years to go.

Speaker 2

But, we're planning on the next few events here at US Open Series and then through Asia as well.

Speaker 1

So last question Last time we spoke in Miami, y'all went on to win the tournament. Should we bet on y'all too?

Speaker 2

I mean maybe we should just do this podcast every tournament we play Maybe, so Bring that kind of luck.

Speaker 1

I'm available, okay, all right deal. I'm available. I'm sure the listeners would love it. Awesome. Thanks y'all.

Speaker 2

Good luck. Thanks y'all, thanks guys.