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Doubles Only Tennis Podcast
The only tennis podcast with a focus on doubles. We believe doubles should be more popular and get more coverage than it does, so we’re fixing that. Our goal is to help you become a better player with pro doubles tips and expert strategy. We interview ATP & WTA tour doubles players and top tennis coaches to help you improve your game.
Doubles Only Tennis Podcast
Mark Petchey Interview: Doubles Debate & Potential Changes for ATP
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Mark Petchey is a commentator and analyst for Tennis Channel and other television networks. He is also a former top 100 singles player on the ATP Tour. He's been around this sport for decades and understands the ins and outs of the tour, TV, and doubles.
I spoke with Mark at the 2025 Australian Open, a few weeks after he sent out this tweet which created some buzz in the doubles world. I spoke with him about what he meant, and what he'd like to see change on tour for doubles. We discuss:
- Why he thinks ATP doubles isn't an exciting product.
- What changes he would like to see, including moving the net post and changing the position of the server's partner.
- How the tour is blocking doubles from growth.
- The debate of the root cause of doubles' problems... does the product or the marketing need to change? Mark and I do not agree on this but that's OK.
- and more...
This is a friendly debate that I believe needs to happen more often so that we can come to solutions and create positive change for doubles.
What do you think? Agree? Disagree? Tweet at me and Mark with your thoughts.
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Doubles in Tennis
Speaker 1Today you're going to hear another conversation from the Australian Open where I talk about doubles. I sit down with Mark Petsche here on the middle Sunday of the Australian Open and if you're not familiar with Mark, he is a TV comment. He actually reached top 100 in singles and nearly cracked the top 100 in doubles as well, and Mark recently posted on Twitter a little bit of a controversial tweet where he ranked men's doubles, women's doubles, mixed doubles and then legends doubles, where they have some former tour players play at these Grand Slam events and he actually ranked ATP men's doubles at the bottom below legends doubles and honestly, after this conversation, I'm not sure he believes that, but he was kind of taking a jab at ATP doubles and he talks about why he did that in this conversation. So we discuss rule changes, we discuss what he'd like to see on the ATP doubles tour and I actually argue with him a bit, because I don't know if I necessarily see eye to eye with Mark and we talk about that. And that's one of the things that I really love about these conversations is that we can get to people who don't necessarily agree on a specific topic like this or agree, in this case, on what changes we need to see going forward. But we can sit down and kind of have a civil discussion about it, maybe try to convince each other and pull each other to our side a little bit and really understand kind of the root of the problem and what changes doubles needs to become more popular and to really grow in the sport of tennis.
Speaker 1So we talk about F1 a little bit and how they've done a really nice job. We talk about the shot clock, product changes. We talk about what makes a tennis star, whether it's singles or marketing. We do discuss marketing and promotion and social media a bit, and a lot more doubles. If you're an ATP doubles player or even a coach or WTA doubles player, I think you're really going to enjoy this and maybe learn a little bit as well. So, without further delay, enjoy this conversation between me and Mark Petsche. Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. I am back in Melbourne here. We're on the fourth floor of Rod Laver, overlooking the crowd. On this Sunday afternoon I'm here with Mark Petsche, mark, welcome.
Speaker 2Thank you for having me it's great to be here with you and thanks for all the good work you do with tennis and promoting it. We need all that we can get.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm doing my best here, but I saw some of your Twitter comments recently on doubles, and this is a topic and these are some of my favorite conversations to have, because doubles, I feel like, is, in my opinion, essential. It's essential. I think it's under marketed, I think it's underutilized on the tours, and I also recognize that it's a very complex situation with a lot of history and a lot of politics, most of which I don't really fully understand because I haven't been around this as long as you and a lot of other people. So I love these conversations. But recently I want to start with your tweet recently where you ranked ATP doubles, wta doubles, mixed doubles and invitational doubles. I pulled the pin out and you put ATP doubles below invitational doubles. I pulled the pin out and you put ATP doubles below invitational doubles. So talk about that, why you did it and what your opinion is on ATP doubles.
Speaker 2Yeah. So basically, I mean I kind of tongue in cheek, did it below invitational, to be honest, but I knew it would get a bit more traction. I mean that I wanted to start a conversation about what I believe and let's get a bit more traction. I mean, I wanted to start a conversation about what I believe and let's get a starting point. I believe that doubles is a huge part of the ecosystem of tennis that is, at the moment, not being fully utilized or not being fully sort of understood and not being fully appreciated. So I think, for all the doubles guys out there that probably saw that tweet and got triggered like you've got to listen to what I'm saying I think that you are an essential part of the tour and I would love to see doubles become much more prominent in a way that we can really sort of celebrate it and understand it for the speciality that it is, and it is a speciality, there's no question about it.
Speaker 2It is, as you say, will, a very complex situation at times, but my starting point with men's doubles is that I believe that we've got to be really careful that we're doing things that maybe don't make a difference. Like you know, queens, last year we suddenly, what was it? 15 seconds between points and you've got guys both at the net trying to run back. I don't believe that that sells the sport better. I think it kind of makes it almost comedy. And I don't think it helps the doubles guys, because I understand that their strategy. I do feel that we need to try and keep doubles as close as we can to an hour because I want to see it on center courts more. And if you have a problem, if you have what we have at the moment, which is two normal sets with no ad and then a long match tiebreaker I've commentated on matches that have gone way past the two hour mark If you're a tournament director, you cannot schedule that match closer than three hours before the men's singles final.
Speaker 2That doesn't. That's not helpful. It's not helpful to anyone. It's not helpful to the fans because they have to come three hours potentially before a men's singles final. Then if the match does last only an hour, they've got two hours to kind of hang around and wait again. They're not going to come for that match. So how do we be able to condense doubles to a point where you can put it as close to a final at any tournament as you can, knowing that it's going to finish within that timeframe.
Speaker 2I think that's one of the conversations and we got closer to it with a little bit of a speeding up that we need to try and get to because that is going to magnify and amplify doubles, because it's closer to the men's singles final or the women's singles final final, so therefore it's going to get a bigger crowd. It's going to look better. Anytime you play in an empty stadium it looks terrible. So the more that we could do that and know that we're going to finish these matches. That's the conversation I'd love to have. But my biggest issue with men's doubles is that you've got fantastic servers trying to serve at 200ks and doing so with a guy standing on top of the net just picking the ball off. And I just think when you've got a product that is average rally length one, because guys serve so well and again, listen to the words that I'm saying it is incredibly difficult to return a 200K plus serve accurately to the feet of somebody when you've got somebody else standing on the net, covering all the angles on the court, doing the geometry lesson that I know all the guys are taught and then creating unbelievable rallies often enough to engage the fan, and that, for me, is actually the number one paramount conversation I would like to have in terms of making the product more attractive.
Enhancing the Tennis Doubles Experience
Speaker 2In other sports they change the three-point line. F1 changes its rules every day. I'm very close to F1. 2026 rule changes are going to be a huge difference for these teams in terms of that. You know, you've got cricket, you've got power plays, you've got different things that you can do, and sometimes in hindsight, like in in soccer, when you eventually couldn't pass it back to the keeper and they could just pick it up, everyone goes. Well, why the hell didn't we do this 20 years ago? There are stuff that we can do in doubles that I believe can make the product better, and that's really the conversation that I was trying to get going with the tweet that I made okay, there's a lot to unpack there, yeah.
Speaker 1That's why Twitter, you can't have a proper conversation, that's right yeah, there was a lot of comments on your tweets and a lot of stuff. There's no nuance there because you've only got 100 and whatever characters. So it sounds like you are a fan and I spoke earlier with Calvin Benton. He said he knows you well. He does. It seems like he has a different approach to you, so he believes there's no product issue, it's more of a marketing thing. It sounds like you believe it's more of a product issue. We need to make rule changes to make the product more exciting. What do you say to someone like calvin?
Speaker 2so so what? Sorry, I just want to understand. What does calvin say in terms of a product changes, what? What does he mean by that?
Speaker 1so changing? Uh, it sounds like he agrees the shot clock is a waste of time. Changing that? I agree with that yes, um, but the service partner behind the service line. He wasn't a fan of that um I'm not either personally, but I'm here to interview you. I'm not here to debate.
Speaker 2No, no, no, um, you can debate me. That's what I want to do.
Speaker 1I want to yes, so he mentioned um, basically that the, the products and the players stories aren't told enough and it's under marketed. So one thing I've talked about a lot over the past few years is, if you go to and maybe I should do this later today go to the Australian open Instagram page or Twitter page and just go through their last hundred posts, how many of them are about doubles? It's going to be less than five, correct? Yeah, so that's a very easy way for the tours to, with systems they already have in place, promote a product that they have on the port. You know, if you walk around the grounds, about half the matches I guess over half the matches are doubles, with mixed as well. Yet it gets less than 5% of the marketing efforts. I'm not saying it should be 50-50, but can we do 10%?
Speaker 2Yeah, listen, I do think that there's lots of threads in this. You know, obviously, if you're going to keep it, you know, obsolete and you're going to keep it sort of packed away, you're not going to create interest, you're not going to get eyeballs on it, you're only going to keep the niche kind of fan who wants to come and watch it anyway. You're only going to keep the niche kind of fan who wants to come and watch it anyway. So, listen, I think all the tournaments that you know, if you don't have doubles, you've got a very bland product and a very empty ground. Look, imagine this place without doubles in the second week. It would be horrific. So you know, my starting point isn't let's get rid of doubles, like a lot of people you know want to save money and they want to get rid of jobs. That's not rid of doubles. Like a lot of people you know want to save money and they want to get rid of jobs. That's not what I want. But I would disagree in terms of I would agree that there should be a collective effort from the tours, the slams and the players that play doubles to try and have a doubles only potential channel which they can own. They can run themselves. The players can be proactively engaged in that. I believe there was an option to. They were trying to get that happen. It got blocked, from what I gather. Yeah, so I've heard. So I would again say that that should be opened up to conversation again and they should be allowed to be able to try and promote their own content. Yes, there should be some sort of filter in terms of whatever copyrights and what you can and can't put on it. But if the players are willing to engage in that kind of social media activity, I I do believe that they should be allowed to do that. That's my personal standpoint on that. So I do feel as though that's a bit of an own goal. If they haven't been allowed to do that, I hope maybe there's a way that they could set up their own channel and therefore maybe they could do their own thing. But again, you get that crossover with copyright rules. What footage can you use and not use? And I appreciate again, like everything in world, it's complicated and it's not straightforward. So I do think that that would help. I don't think it would be the magic elixir.
Speaker 2I do think that when you come to somewhere like Australia, you can see how engaged the fans are in doubles. There's packed crowds every single sort of time that they step out there. But week in, week out, I would argue that the product itself is a little dry, because I don't believe there's enough rallies that happen that are super exciting. When they do develop, they are off the charts great. Little dry because I don't believe there's enough rallies that happen that are super exciting. When they do develop, they are off the charts great. But I just don't believe that in the case of an hour and a half's worth of tennis in men's doubles, with the way that the guys serve, with the way that they understand the angles on the court, there is enough great action. For me personally, that's going to engage a new generation of fan. If you like tennis already, you'll watch it. But what we've got to do is look to the future, and that's why one of my suggestions is taking the guy off the net, because when you serve at that speed, you have much more space, therefore, to hit the ball.
Exploring Changes to Tennis Doubles
Speaker 2In cricket with a power play, you bring the players in. You have to have seven inside the circle, so it gives the batter, for five overs, an opportunity to smash the ball over the top because there's not so many outfielders protecting it. So you don't just have one or two runs every time because there's no benefit for them to going aerial. So they have to keep the ball on the ground if you don't have a power play. They brought the power play in because the game wasn't as attractive. It's made the game more attractive so you know you have a ball in one day cricket that does not move as much, it doesn't swing, it favors the batter because there's a ton of runs and people love runs. They don't want to see 10 wickets tumbling and everyone just batting and straight batting it, because it's not entertainment.
Speaker 2Do think the tennis players and the people that are already so entrenched in the environment and in the sport need to just take a step back and go. We can change this product and make it better. We don't need to be set on us in our stall and saying, no, that's our stake in the ground. If we change it, it means that we weren't right. It's like you can make the sport better and if you can make the sport better, we should. So if you got to sport better.
Speaker 1We should. So if you got to change one thing, you can either change the you wanted to move the net post to singles yeah, no, onto the doubles line, not onto the singles line, obviously. But onto the doubles. It's awareness for singles right.
Speaker 2No, no, no on the doubles line. So tennis nets started in the history of the sport back in the 19th century. The singles sticks were on the singles line. They got wider and obviously has made it harder to pass.
Speaker 2So if I'm medvedev on the singles court and again this goes across over to the sport in general and trying to create great entertainment, why, if you're daniel medvedev and you return from 80 meters behind the baseline, do you not absolutely ask for a singles net? Because you are basically getting blocked from being able to hit it around the net from from where when you get served out wide? I will never understand it. It's like we are making it harder for the players to entertain the fans by hitting it.
Speaker 2So that is one of my suggestions in doubles is that if you put the doubles nets on the doubles tram line, not on the singles or where the single sticks are on the doubles, as a net player, if you volley, if your partner's volleyed wide, you have to. You have to go even further over to guard against the shot that comes around the net. So it would make you. You're all I'm trying to do on the doubles core with going back behind the service line when the when your partner's serving and potentially moving the nets is create space for shots to happen. At the moment, the guys are so good so good at understanding the geometry of the court that it makes it so difficult to hit a winner or to get past them, and so that's the whole essence of my argument is can we create space on a doubles court where more exciting things can happen and more winners can happen that are not just based on big serve, big volley?
Speaker 1What about getting rid of the first serve?
Speaker 2I think it's a conversation that I would have. I mean, I'm loathe even though people think that I'm sort of like anti-everything, I'm not I'm loathe to change it to that degree where you're basically kicking in a server 150 Ks, 160 Ks, you know, 90 miles an hour to 100, and really handing sole advantage to the returner and potentially having a game where you get tight and you just miss one serve after another and it's like, well, that's not great entertainment either. So I'm sort of I understand and I'm, you know, even Calvin came up to me and he said the doubles we watched the other day you would have enjoyed it because there were four non-big servers out there. Loads of rallies.
Speaker 2Yeah, there's an argument in my head that would go to one. But I'm also conscious of the fact that I don't want to blow the product up completely where you've suddenly got games where people are serving two doubles and that's going to be horrific. So I'm a little bit out on that one. I don't know how the doubles guys would feel about that one. It just feels like we could get into a stage which sounds good because you've got to dial down the power but you end up serving so many non-points that people in the crowd and TV are going. Oh, this isn't fun either.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm not sure the double fault rate on tour. I think it's less than five percent, yeah, um, so it'd be maybe one in 20 points, yeah, where you'd get that fault. Uh, but some of them may dial the serve up if they only had one serve too. So that's why we get that's kind of a mind game, but but I know the win rate it's it's around 50, so the return team's winning 50. So a lot more breaks of serve and then obviously, um, you're not redirecting a 200 pace, or maybe it's 160.
Speaker 2And that's what my attitude to, and my conversation as this goes out to the players is why don't you go to the tour and say an Estoril at a 250 or somewhere else? We're going to trial this. We're going to trial a one serve. We want to trial it. We're going to trial a one serve. We want to trial it. We want to see what this product's like. And for that week, do you know what I'm going to watch? Because I'm actually going to put eyeballs on because the rules have changed, and I'm going to go and watch that tournament for the doubles because I'm going to go.
Evolving Strategies in Tennis Doubles
Speaker 2I want to see how this pans out. Is it better, is it worse? We've got so many events in the game of tennis and we shouldn't be so scared to trial things that may or may not work. I'm not saying that my ideas are definitely going to work, but if we never trial them, we'll never know. And therefore, when we've got all these events, along with the challenges, why not trial them and go? Do you know what that actually did work? And I actually think one serve is actually better for us. It's far more entertaining. Look at all the content that we've generated for Insta on the players' profiles and everything else. That's great, but how do we know?
Speaker 2You're sitting there telling me a number and it may well be that that's what transpires. It may be that it doesn't, but we've got to trial this thing. We've got to watch it. We've got that's what transpires. It may be that it doesn't, but we've got to trial this thing. We've got to watch it. We've got to see what happens. And people shouldn't be so stuck in their way saying well, oh, it's my ranking, it's this. It's like listen, this sport needs to survive. Your art needs to survive. There is a push that they're very well aware of that. Maybe they want to get rid of it. You trial it, see what happens, and I bet you out of this. Even if it's just one thing that makes this, the product, better, then that's a win. Even if four or five of the things are complete, absolute, you know, hopeless in in reality, if the one thing changes it and makes it a better, better product for people to watch, then it's a win I felt encouraged last year by some of the trials.
Speaker 1I don't know, yeah, you've obviously been in this a lot longer than me, but it seemed like last year they experimented a bit more than they had in previous years. Um, they did the trial in madrid with the free fan movement. Yeah, the way they, the players, entered the tournament. Uh, the shot clocks, the shorter changeovers, um, I didn't agree with all of it. No, I agree the shot clocks a terrible idea. But yeah, people asked me about it and I said I'm just glad they're trying. Yes, and they did the mixed at indian wells, which was an invitational tournament.
Speaker 2That I'd love to see mixed at the masters thousands yeah, they absolutely should do that.
Speaker 1Um so I'm totally on board with you there. I I don't even care if I agree with all the changes, just start experimenting and also, yeah, like the shot clock and all of that was a bad idea.
Speaker 2Okay, but now we know it was a bad idea. So let's kind of figure it out. Like what, what are we going to do? Like tennis is always like one size fits all same, with the shot clock and singles it's like guys are taking longer, it's made matches longer. It doesn't really what, it doesn't fit the purpose. So why can we not, like baseball went to two shot clocks in the states, why can we not have one for a certain rally length and one for another rally length? And and actually just kind of understand that in the sport there should be room for nuance and for unseen consequences.
Speaker 2And I agree with you, like I, you know, fiddling around with the entries and all of this stuff, it is a star-driven sport, will you know? Like it will never not be the case. You know, if alcaraz turns up in madrid to play doubles, how do we get him on the court? My one argument has been like you know, we took two sets out of the doubles at wimbledon. I don't necessarily agree with that because I don't think you're really fixing the problem. You're not going to get Sinner and Alcaraz and Novak to play doubles. Whether you play best of three or best of five, you're not going to do it. So actually, what are you doing For the fan that loves doubles? They want to watch best of five because actually it's more tennis, it's more bang for their buck. So actually just taking away sets doesn't really help anybody at all. It's not really fixing the underlying thing.
Speaker 2My argument on the main tour, when it's best of three, is could we get to a stage where and again, this is something that I'm sure no one's going to agree with, but there is a part of me in doubles that's going why don't we just do a time? Why don't we do an hour? Because that's one of the big problems that we have. It's like like we don't know how long a match is going to last. Why don't we do an hour? And it is first through the line. Who is ever winning at that stage wins the match? Would and again, I probably doubt it, because they're making too much money. But would sinner alcaraz jockovich think, do you know what, instead of hitting balls on my day off at these masters thousands that are now 12 days I could go and play doubles, and I know it's an hour and that's it. Would that entice them Again? My bet is no, but maybe.
Speaker 2But, maybe yeah. So if it's a maybe, why don't we try it? So?
Speaker 1I think I told you I'm going to interview you, but I am going to argue a little bit.
Speaker 1Good, so when we're talking about bringing in Alcaraz, yonickson or whoever to play doubles, to me that's like a short-term solution to help promote doubles.
Speaker 1Because I think that one of the problems that we're running into is the marketing and the storytelling of the doubles players and the reason Coco Golf, carlos Alcaraz, yonickson or whoever they're such big tennis stars and I don't like to call them single stars, even though they play singles it's because they have all of these marketing dollars behind them and their stories are being told. And I'm not saying that Matej Pavic is going to be as big as Carlos Alcaraz or something like that, but he can certainly be a bigger name than he is now Maybe 10% of whatlos alvarez is, or whatever if those stories are told a bit more. Because when I walk around the grounds, and especially at indian wells and a tournament like this, I'll hear people saying coco's playing doubles like let's go watch. You hear people say I like watching coco play doubles more than singles. They're a Coco fan, they're not a singles fan, right? So they're a fan of the player.
Speaker 2But you kind of, in a certain way, you're making my point. It's a style-driven sport and the style-driven, whether we like it or not Will, comes from singles.
Speaker 1But does it come from the singles?
Speaker 2It doesn't come from the marketing, it comes from singles.
Speaker 1Okay, it doesn't come from the marketing, it comes from singles. Okay.
Speaker 2Maybe that's where we disagree. Yeah, which is fine. You know that I came here to have a conversation. I'm not saying that I'm right and wrong, but if you're going to ask me, the optics in tennis is always going to come from singles. Everyone sees singles as the premier version of the game. If you excel in that, you are the best at at it, whether we like it or not. That's kind of the optics.
Speaker 2And even in back in the day, when johnny mack was ripping it up on the doubles court, stephan edberg was ripping it up on the door. There they didn't get it from doubles, they got it from their singles exploits. How good they were in that regard. And I think that maybe, if, if that is an issue for the doubles guys, they need to, unfortunately, accept it and if the timed hour could get Alcaraz and Sinner to play, it would help them, because you are going to get more eyeballs on the product that they play. Again, I go back to it's not undermining these guys' skill level and their exploits and their achievements. It is just you've got to deal with reality and I'm not saying that if you didn't market them more and you didn't push it, it wouldn't be better, but I don't think you're ever going to elevate them to the level that the singles guys get from a marketing point of view. It's not even through their own marketing, it's through their achievements on a tennis court okay, so I know you got to run here.
Speaker 1I guess my last comment on that would be this is where we kind of go back and forth.
Speaker 1yeah, like I don't think that that, to stick with the pavich example, yeah, I don't think he needs to be, and necessarily ever will be, the same star level of an alferez, but in the same way that, like, at least in the US, maybe 10% of people have heard of Yannick Sinner and 100% of people have heard of Patrick Mahomes. Yeah, so tennis is a smaller market in the US than NFL, so doubles will be a smaller market than singles. I'm okay with that. It's not something that I want to like settle on and accept, but like that's fine with me, but I think it can be. If it's two percent of singles right now, I think it can be ten percent in five or ten years if they do the right things yeah, and I think and I think you're right and I think that again it comes back to joined up thinking, doesn't it?
Speaker 2it comes back to us as television people getting pavich in the studio telling his story. Better, it comes back to us interviewing them more before they go out on court. You know, getting good access like I don't know. You know, if they're on the court with the, with the tours, can we, can we do a way of you know, miking up the guys talking to them mid-match? You know you don't have to give everything away. You know, same in f1, where you got it on delay, it's five seconds delay. You don't have to give everything away. You know it's the same in F1, where you got it on delay, it's five seconds delay. You don't kind of know what. You know you can just block it. Okay, that wasn't good, you don't have to give massive.
Elevating Doubles Tennis Experience
Speaker 2I still remember one of the great bit of telly for me was the Del Potro Nadal match at the US Open many, many moons ago, and after the first set that Del Po won I think it was, pam Shriver went up to Uncle Tony in the box and said tough opening set Rafa down a set. What's going on out here, you know, and he just went yeah, we're getting beaten badly by Delpo's forehand here, like we can't get it away from it and we, you know, and he's getting outmaneuvered and everything else and it was like. It was like perfect, because you could watch what happened after that, where Rafa solved the problem and he ended up in that opening set trying to play off the top of my head, 60, 70 percent, four hands, rafa. The second set he was at like 50 50. He stood in the middle and he beat Delpo with court positioning because his backhand's good enough to be able to like, and it was like okay, you know, we got told something there that maybe in commentary box you should pick up anyway, but it came from Uncle Tony, it was raw, it was authentic, it was like a little nugget. It didn't really give anything away. It didn't give anything away to Delpo's team. It was just like. That was the reality that Uncle Tony saw, you know, and and that's where I think you know as doubles.
Speaker 2But again it comes back to how much of the tour is willing to invest in in actually getting a production out of a doubles match where people like yourself and people can engage, and I, and I think that's why I say one of my. You know, the some of the thoughts that I have are thoughts, but unless we have a joined up, collective approach to solving the problem, it will always remain where it is. And tennis historically, even on the single side of things, has moved at a glacial pace. In doubles it's going to move even slower. So we need to kind of figure out how we all can get together and make it happen.
Speaker 2And that's all I really wanted to do with the tweet. As we go back full circle like I I work in the other side of the industry I see how little attention it gets. How do we make it better? And and the starting point for me was I think the product actually in match can be better. But I also appreciate outside of that when we all need to do collectively a better job of trying to trying to push the sport mark, I could sit here and talk to you for about three hours about this.
Speaker 1Uh, this was a ton of fun. Hopefully we can do it again sometime.
Speaker 2Yeah, hopefully, when the hopefully if you guys and the guys in the doubles side of things can get the tours to to kind of just implement some things or trial some things, I'd love to sit down and I'll certainly be the first to give my feedback and see. I think again finishing off at the same point, doubles is essential. I just want it to be the best that it can be 100%.
Speaker 1That's what we all want. Thanks again, Mark. Thanks.