Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Doubles Practice with ATP & WTA Coach Dan Kiernan

• Will Boucek • Episode 249

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I spoke with ATP & WTA Coach, Dan Kiernan, in Cincinnati about life as a professional coach, doubles drills, practice sets, and more. This episode will help you rethink how you practice.

Dan works with multiple players on different teams, not uncommon for doubles coaches, so you'll get insights into what his day-to-day responsibilities look like.

  • Dan's daily schedule can involve up to 7-8 hours of court time, plus meetings, court bookings, academy management (Soto Tennis Academy), podcasts, and more
  • How practice courts are reserved at tournaments
  • Practice drills focus on offensive and defensive positioning rather than neutral play
  • The "overhead drill" helps players master both offensive overheads and defensive lobs
  • The amount of practice time dedicated to serving and returning will be jaw-dropping for club players to hear
  • Practice sets serve different purposes depending on team needs and tournament context

I love the topic of game development and practicing with a purpose, and I'm always learning from coaches like Dan. Dabrowski and Routliffe are in the semifinals in Cincinnati, which you can watch on Tennis Channel Plus.

Previous Episodes with Dan Kiernan:

Learn more about Dan & follow:

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Introduction to Coach Dan Kiernan

Speaker 1

This is a conversation with a repeat guest on the podcast, dan Kiernan. Dan is always very generous with his time at these tournaments. I spoke with him in Cincinnati after filming a bit of practice, which I'm going to be creating some content around, with Gabby Dabrowski and Aaron Routliff. Dan is also here coaching Mike Venus, and we talked about practice and training a lot in this episode. So we went through specific drills that he did with Gabby and Aaron earlier in the day, and again I'll have a video on some of these drills so that you can kind of watch them and learn and implement some of this into your own practices.

Speaker 1

I've also asked him about practice sets and how they approach those differently. When do they treat it more like a match versus try to work on specific things? We also just talked about life as a coach. It's very time consuming, it's very difficult, but also very rewarding, and Dan shares his perspective on that. So I always learn a ton when I chat with Dan, and I'm sure you will too. So, without further delay, enjoy this brief conversation from Cincinnati with Coach Dan Kiernan. Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. Today I am in Cincinnati with Coach Dan Kiernan. Dan welcome.

Speaker 2

Thanks Will Nice to be back.

Speaker 1

Yeah, thanks for coming back on. We are here in Cincinnati. The first question I wanted to lead with is if someone were to come to this tournament, how much deodorant would you advise they bring?

Speaker 2

You know what? I'm not sure of any, because I think we all just smell together. You know that's the way. You know we don't want to. We don't want to go down that route. And also we have to be careful, after what harriet dart said to to pass on. That's right about the deodorant back in, back in, back in may. But I must admit I've been to cincinnati a couple of times and you might have a day or two like this, but then it tends to rain and actually I've, I remember like having towels wrapped around me on an evening, you know previously, whereas this year, whether it's eight o'clock in the morning or it's eight o'clock at night, it's still that kind of just film of sweat across your skin, um, which I don't mind. I feel like that's part of being in a bit of a battle. I quite like, like the mentality, but not so easy for the players.

A Day in a Coach's Life

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's sticky out here this year. So talk us through your last kind of 24 hours in your day to day. I mean, you've got two teams here You're working scheduling practice courts. You're moving from one practice court to the next. You're moving a team from one practice court to the next. I don't know if you help with laundry. The more coaches I talk to, the more I feel like your job is harder, much harder than the players yeah, look hard, it's hard, but it's it's also.

Speaker 2

It's also a privilege, right, it's a. It's a privilege to be at this, to be at this level and and to be around this. It's also a privilege to be working with teams that you've got such a nice connection with. You know, I'm lucky Gabby and Aaron. Now it's actually two years ago I started working with them here in Cincinnati. It was the first event I did with them. I've been working with Mike now for the last nine months as well.

Speaker 2

So, in terms of the day, it depends on the day you ask me. Today was a relatively easy day and and I'll maybe give you a couple of examples, because I guess, when we talk about the first couple of days at these events, I tend to do seven or eight hours in a row on court and and the reason I do that is I will do one-on-one work with them. All you know, and I, I, I very much have the philosophy of getting better every day. You know, and we're not just warming up, getting ready for a tournament. It's, it's a constant growth, evolving, evolving their own personal skills, but also their team skills. So so those days were pretty heavy, if I'm honest, in in this weather. But you know I enjoy being on court, but they would be kind of an 8.30 till 10 with one of them. Maybe a team practice points 10 till 11.30, then maybe an 11.30 till 12.30 with one, and then then they would play points and then maybe Gabby would come back in the afternoon. So it was quite often kind of an 8.30 or 3.30, 8.30 or 4.

Speaker 2

The way through on court, the last 24 hours, and maybe of interest to people, is, I suppose, how you book courts right. So you get your hour slot. You call up and you ask for if it's between 10 o'clock and 4 o'clock, you ask for a court for, let's say, gabby and Aaron. So this morning I was with Gabby and Aaron, 12 till 1, and then Mike and Yuki, 11-12 officially. And you ask and they say, well, who are you playing with? And you say, well, today we're not, so you have to put down looking. And then someone at the end of the phone says, well, actually this other team's looking. And for the girls they actually said Asutiagi and Olmos are looking. So we actually play them on Tuesday. So I don't think we want to practice with them today.

Speaker 2

I said so, could you not just put looking but not looking, you know like, and more often than not, especially since they've done such a great job here in Cincinnati, it feels like there's more space for courts. So this feels less stress, actually called to be more readily available, um, and then you've got your hour, but then I get up. I'm up anyway, but at eight o'clock I always call immediately when the, when the office opens, it's kind of it's me again, you know. And then you're able to book extra the day of. So I booked an extra hour 10 till 11, and then I booked an extra hour 1 till 2. So then I saw mike, 10 till 11, and then mike and yuki played the practice set with david pell, the uh finalists at wimbledon this year, um and nate lamans uh, they played their set, um got their points in, so mike had done his two hours, which is good for him, before he plays tomorrow.

Speaker 2

Then I did a session where I'm hitting him with the girls and then we actually did some extra afterwards extra serves, extra returns, whatever they might need to kind of sharpen the tools up for match day tomorrow as well. So today, a relatively easy day, and then team meetings and then team meetings to go through the match the next day. And then Soto Tennis Academy gets a bit of a bit of a go as well. You know the, my academy back in Spain. Then I've had a few calls making sure that everything's working there. And then you know popular in demand on podcasts, you know coming to, coming to speak to you, which is always a pleasure, um, so, yeah, so, before we know it, it's six o'clock, right, yeah, um, but I think that's also the way that we are well I I wouldn't want it.

Speaker 2

What am I going to do back at the hotel you know how many you know sit and watch a movie. That's not. It's not in my personality to to do that anyway. Um, then I'll go to the gym and then I'll have dinner with gabby or the girls here and go back and make sure plans are finalized for tomorrow, and then we, yeah, rinse and repeat, really, you know.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's funny. It's certainly more than an eight hour day, but it's like that cliche, you know when you're, when you're doing what you love, it's not really work.

Speaker 2

No, it's not. I mean you can have the odd week, of course you can. You know we're all human beings and you know you can. I was actually reflecting to someone today, like french open. When I look back, I probably wasn't quite myself at french open, you know, maybe felt a bit heavier and I don't know why. You know, maybe just there was, there was lots going on in in life at that time, um, whereas a week like this week it almost feels like you're on holiday in some ways.

Speaker 2

You know, because I'm a tennis enthusiast. You know I've been very fortunate to sit on some big courts and lots of big matches, but I always approach these events as if it's going to be the last time I'm here. You know I never assume that a tennis player wants me to be in their corner. You know it's an ever moving and evolving sport, um, so to have an opportunity, when this has been my sport for 35 years, to be around and, you know, get to watch, you know on court next to alcaraz today, and you know you get to be around this beautiful site and how well looked after everybody is, it certainly doesn't feel like too much of a hardship talk us through, um, some of the drills you did today.

Practice Drills and Training Philosophy

Speaker 1

So you had Gabby and Aaron out there. I filmed a bit so I'm going to be releasing some video of some of these drills. But talk us through some of the drills, what they're working on and kind of how it might help somebody listening.

Speaker 2

Yeah. So I mean, I think we would have quite basic warm-up drills that would try and incorporate offense and defense. You know there's not a lot of doubles, that's played in neutral. You know you're either on the offense or you're in defense. You know so, even when it might look like just warm-up. You know one person on the baseline and one person volleying. You know it's actually that's a position that you find yourself in quite a bit, you know.

Speaker 2

So I'm. I'm in there, maybe challenging them. Are they're able to hit five balls what I call through the window? You know. So just a foot over the net, you know. Are you able to repeat five balls and the net player doesn't break? Who breaks first? You know, and if you best better players that you watch, that sort of drill will be done at a much higher tempo, whereas if you maybe watch some players do that drill, one person hits a good volley and then the next ball flies. One person hits a good volley and then all of a sudden the ball's above someone's shoulder where they're going to put it away. So just that kind of real detail, that fine tuning on those areas, is where we're starting. The same, if they're hitting from the baseline, they've got the targets that they're hitting from the baseline. We also have a rule if the ball drops short, then you hit and come in, because that's in line with their identity. I'll often then stand in that place as well. So they've got a visual of someone at the net to either hit the ball at.

Speaker 2

Gabby's been giving me a bit of I'll not say the bad word, a bit of rap this week, because a couple of times she's gone at me and I've reacted. A volley for a winner cross court and she said to me can I not hit the ball back to her? And I was. I'm just happy that I hit the bloody strings. Do you know what I mean? Never mind hit it back to you at that speed, you know. But you know, uh, she wants to be able to hit that ball at the net, and then you know I make another ball and then she's ready for the next one. You know so. So it's not so much about the drill. I guess it's about what they bring to the drill in terms of their intensity and their intention. I'm trying to think what we did today? Very basic, yeah, then I like them also spending time on the same side together.

Speaker 1

Yeah, there was one you all did where you fed, I think, cross to Gabby as she approached and Aaron was already at the net.

Speaker 2

Yes, so that all again we'll do a lot of that again within their identity. Right there they're a team that comes forward a lot. So whether it's a volley, whether it's return and volley, whether it's third ball after the serve and volley, you know they find themselves in that position a lot. You know. And what we know is just in doubles in general is if service partner touches the ball, the percentage of chance of winning the point goes up quite dramatically, you know, whereas actually most teams are winning maybe around about 50 percent of points if the ball goes back to the server. So if we can get really good at that, you know, make sure that first volley has that low trajectory. It's, it's it's kind of skidding off the court. Then I really like gabby and erin's chances, you know of skidding off the court. Then I really like Gabi and Aaron's chances. You know of how they then command the net.

Speaker 2

We obviously in women's doubles there's lots of lobs, so I try and make sure that there's lobs going up their communication as a team. Who's taking that lob? Who's getting in the right position? Is it then drive volley and then get back on top of the net? Is it taking the overhead? You know it's, it's very much built around their identity.

Speaker 2

So, in in these big tournaments, we would probably spend 10 to 20 minutes on that pretty much every practice session, um, because that's the big area that they're doing. Obviously we then introduce that, sometimes with the serve, we introduce that sometimes with the return and certain set plays, um, but they would be quite basic drills that we would do, you know, as we get later on in the practice, you know, we then maybe go specific into something that we feel they'll be hitting a lot of, whether it's in the next match or whether they're going to be doing that over the next. We're not just thinking of the next match, we're also thinking about, you know, there's another three months of this season left, you know. So what are the? What are the areas that we need to refine? You know what are the areas that we're we're getting ourselves into position on as a team and just making sure that they're getting enough reps on that. So it becomes a little bit more automatic really how often are you?

Specialized Overhead and Defensive Drills

Speaker 1

so you did one drill where, where you lobbed, I think gabby was on the other side, aaron was with you, yeah, and gabby was working on overheads, I guess, and you were just defensive lobs back yeah um, explain that drill. And then also do you typically score the drills or do you just go until they feel good?

Speaker 2

I'll start with the scoring bit. Okay, scoring bits, uh, it's a very. This is where the art of coaching comes in.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's what we want to hear.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and, and I guess I've got to feel the mood sometimes, I've got to feel the place that they're in. Um, you know, I might use a scoring system, like I did it today actually, and I what I said to them is and this was half true was I'm doing this for me because I've missed a couple of balls and I was annoyed at myself, you know. But if it's a first to five, I know that I'll get an extra five percent out of myself. But I also know they will as well they don't want to lose their old fat coach, you know. So like it becomes a, it becomes a very I might use it in in that regard necessarily use too much scoring system together against each other. You know that might be different in certain partnerships.

Speaker 2

But the overhead drill the second part of the question, or the first part of the question, um, it's actually it's a drill I've done for many years. We call it the overhead drill. It's not complicated in terms of name, um, but naturally players that come to the net a lot and double stay. But it's happening more in ATP now. Players will try and lob you right. That's a massive, massive part of the game and I can't tell you how much better they've got at that. You know we we probably started that in Beijing last year. You know it was a big area that we really focused on, kind of Beijing then all the way through Riyadh, where anybody that watched Gabi and Aaron play in Riyadh, they were incredible overhead and that was ultimately a big reason that they went on and won the title. And it's just a very simple drill. You can only win the point as the overheader if you hit a clean winner and you can only win the point as the overheader if you hit a clean winner and you can only win the point as the lobber if they miss. You know, so it's, we have to lob every ball and they have to try and overhead every ball and it's. You know we will do it quite regular and it's just, it's a nice way for them to then understand is that the overhead? I try and get off the court or is that is the overhead? Maybe I play more through the court and set my partner up or set the next one up, and it's a nice way of getting reps and I like that drill to be competitive. You know that's a drill, that accountability, because it's such an important part of the game as well. So, yeah, I would say it's one of my favorites, but just a very basic drill, but I do part of the game as well. So, um, but yeah, I would say it's one of one of my favorites, but just a very basic drill, but it's. I do it with the guys as well. But I think it's a really important drill for the doubles players and, I would say, for club players.

Speaker 2

What you might find is the lobs are missed too much and then it's frustrating because it's like, well, nobody's winning a point because the lob's being missed, or the or the overhead is trying to really struggles to put it away. But if you do that on a regular basis, you'd be amazed. One, how, how good your overheads can get. But two and this is a big part of the drill is how good your defensive lobs get. You know which is a real kind of under um, underused, undervalued skill. I believe in doubles as well. You know the ability to be able to hit a nice lob back, nice and deep um off and overhead and keep yourself in the point. You'd be amazed how often in men's and women's doubles that that often ends up winning the point eventually 100 and the club players don't practice those things enough yeah which is why they complain when they face teams who are good at lobbying yeah, well, it's chaotic.

Serving, Returning, and Practice Sets

Speaker 2

Right, it can feel a bit it can. It's not rhythmical. Yeah, it doesn't feel rhythmical, so anything that's not necessarily pretty always no, then we, we tend to avoid those things, yeah um, so just two more questions.

Speaker 1

Uh, how much time on serves and returns?

Speaker 2

typically 50, 50 yeah, I would say as a general rule it's 50%. I mean I would say the same in match warm-up. You know I'll be on the watch on match warm-up and we'll have our warm-up, we'll go through which is offense defense. You know we've got our very set routine that we do that specific to them on how they're going to be playing the game and I'll always be looking at about 13, 14 minutes if it's a half an hour. We'd like ideally to get a little longer than half an hour normally, maybe not in this heat so much. But yeah, 13, 14 minutes of everything else and then 15, 16 minutes of serving and I would say Does that include returning as well?

Speaker 1

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2

So you'll be serving and returning to each other in the warm-up and then you'll then both serve the opposite sides, sure. And then I would say, if I take even this week, let's say on average they've played. The girls have played on average two hours, two and a half hours a day. They've on average served an hour an hour and 15 a day. I would say 50% is probably your number and I'd be surprised if many doubles players do much less than that, to be honest.

Speaker 1

Last question for you. You talked about practice sets. So a lot of players when I was at the practice courts this morning are working on specifics, working on drills, like we just went over, but then a lot of them are playing against another team and just playing a practice set. Is there anything you do differently in a practice set where you want your players to do differently, or do you tell them just treat it like a real match? It depends how do you make that decision?

Speaker 2

louis kai's favorite two words. Yeah, I mean again the context is everything right. It's like let's take Glasspool and cash right now, mm-hmm, they don't need any confidence, right? They've just won like 150 matches in a row. So, you know, their practice sets they're probably not trying to the importance of winning the set or competing, or maybe isn't as high. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2

So there may be, you know, that you might have sometimes, you know, big servers might actually try and hit slower serves so they get some first volleys. You know, um, you might go I I did this quite a bit with mike and nicola where this next game you just hit chip lobs, you know, because I know that's a player that we're going to need at some point. You know, um, mike and yuki are a new partnership, so we're trying to establish certain things. So actually, myself and raven clausen, who coaches yuki bambury, where I'm finding we're coaching them quite a lot within the sets, you know, you often see the coaches stand there looking cool with their sunglasses and hugging their rackets. Um, you know, and that's often because players don't want the input so much and you know, in certain times, but with with those guys, we're picking up certain things and certain players that might happen against them and how they counter that and um, there's quite a bit of discussion. But also, I would say, where we're really trying to get those guys locked into their team energy, locked into bringing positive energy when they do something good. You know, like, because we're trying to build something. You know, they're at the starting point of building Gabby and Aaron, who have had quite a lot of success for two years. It might be set players that we're working on, you know, and there's a little bit more focus on that.

Speaker 2

However, what I would say tennis players are tennis players and they probably want to win the set. So I think there's always a natural competitiveness to it. You know, I see some fist pumps, I see some close line calls, you know, you see, and I won't name names, but you know some of these old boys out there are giving some pretty tight line calls at times, you know. So you don't lose the dog in you. You know, that kind of real competitive juice. But yeah, but it will obviously certainly depend on and some players, like I know, like Kravitz Poots, never play practice sets. You know, like I know, like Kravitz putz never play practice sets. You know, like, as an example.

Closing Thoughts and Wrap-up

Speaker 2

Some players won't want to do it once the tournament started. You know they'll want to just do. You know, some people just want to get into a bit of a routine and maybe just their extended warmups. Some people want to get really specific in the middle of the tournament and work on things they could have done better in the first round. Different teams will do different things, um, but yeah, all in all they tend to be pretty competitive because of just the nature of how tennis players are. Um, but you'll also it's a chance to try a few different things of course, awesome, dan.

Speaker 1

This was a ton of fun. I always learn when I uh chat with you, so thanks again for coming on and good luck this week thanks, well, nice to see you guys.