Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Neal & Ken Skupski: Winter Olympics, World #1, AO, & Brotherly Love

• Will Boucek • Episode 275

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Neal Skupski is currently ranked #1 in the world in doubles. He won the Australian Open earlier this year, and has made three of the past four major finals. His brother, Ken Skupski, is a former top 50 doubles player who now coaches Neal and his new partner, Christian Harrison.

Neal & Ken joined me at the Dallas Open to unpack the Australian Open Title, the new partnership with Christian Harrison, and the British system that has elevated five British players inside the top ten. We dig into drills, pressure management, and their relationship.

  • Neal's takeaways from reaching 3/4 slam finals and returning to world #1
  • How they've adjusted to the new partnership with Chrstian Harrison
  • Off‑season habits and routines that travel into week one
  • The serve‑plus‑one volley drill: Footwork and technique
  • How Ken develops himself as a coach
  • Ken's method for breaking up majors into two tournaments
  • The brothers’ coach‑player dynamic, conflict avoidance, and trust
  • Thoughts on the Sam Querrey top‑40 doubles claim and respect for the craft

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Learn more about Ken & follow:

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Winter Olympics Icebreaker

SPEAKER_01

You're about to hear my conversation with Neil and Clenn Sky. Neil is the number one doubles player on the ATP tour, having recently won the Australian Open title alongside his new partner, Christian Harrison. Neil's brother is Clenn Sky, who is also his former doubles partner and current coach. Clint was a top 50 doubles player as well. We had this conversation in the hotel lobby just outside of the Dallas Open a few days before Neil and Christian's first round match. I started out talking about the Winter Olympics, which were going on in the background before we dove into tennis. I asked Neil what he's learned over the last year, having made three of the last four major finals, including winning the Altourn Open earlier this year. After that, I talked to Ken about how he thinks about improving as a doubles coach, especially having been a top 50 player himself. Then we dove into the new partnership with Kristen Harrison. They talk a little bit about off-season training, what's worked so well early in the season, what adjustments they've had to make. They discussed the British tennis system a bit and more. And then we talked about their brother slash coach player dynamics. So obviously, being brothers, they have a previous relationship, they know each other super well. What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of that? And how do they deal with conflict if it does arise? And then I asked Ken about a drill he was doing earlier in the day with Neil and Crystal. It is one of my favorite doubles drills. I call it the Surf Plus One Volley Drill. And we really dive into the weeds on this one. Ken does a really good job of articulating what to focus on with your footwork, what to focus on with your hands and your racket face. And then he also shares what to think about from a coach's perspective as well. And then at the end, we talk about Sam Query's recent comments on doubles on his Nothing Major podcast. This is a really wide-ranging, fun conversation. You're going to get to know Neil as well as Ken, who's never been on the podcast before. I had a lot of fun chatting with him. I think you're going to really enjoy listening to them as well. So without further delay, enjoy this conversation with Neil and Ken Skubsky. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. I'm here at the Dallas Open with Neil and Ken Skubsky. Welcome, guys. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for having us on. Thanks for coming on. So I want to talk about the Australian Open run, obviously. Uh winning the Australian Open, great way to start the year, like we were just talking about, Ken. But before that, uh we've got the Olympics playing here in the background. So I wanted to start with some Olympics questions. Oh okay. Between the two of you, well, let's start favorite winter Olympic sport for each of you.

SPEAKER_00

Um I don't even know what you would call it. There's four people that race on um the bobsled. No, no, no. It's it's they it's um yeah, I can't remember what they call it, but they they all race downhill. Um and it's not it's not skis, it's um snowboarding? Snowboarding, yeah. And they and they all race, it's it's an amazing thing. Well, that's a I think that's what it is. I actually don't know what you would call it.

SPEAKER_03

Um motorbikes like cross-connects.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's it's four guys just start at the top and they all have to work their way to the bottom. Uh okay.

SPEAKER_01

And there's a winner, one of the four advantages.

SPEAKER_00

But it it's it's like it's like yeah, it's on a it's on like a weaving course, which is pretty interesting. There's a there's a few jumps involved. Okay. I I find that really interesting.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, that sounds fun. I didn't watch that one. Um, I think my favorite could be the curling. Um I wish I could do it one day and play. Um I mean, in the past I played bowls, um, but I would see curling's yeah, seems to be always um Great Britain are pretty good at it, so I tend to watch it. Uh, we're always kind of up for a medal, so it's uh it's something that I'd want to do in the future and try out.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I want to try curling as well. I've never uh done that before. Um who would win in a downhill skiing race?

SPEAKER_00

Never skied in my life. Uh I'd love to try.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe both of you would lose.

SPEAKER_03

I think so.

SPEAKER_00

Actually, making it to the finish line would be something.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, we'd uh we'd roll down the hill.

SPEAKER_01

Who would be better at curling, you think?

SPEAKER_03

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00

Uh I think we'd both be pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Both. I'm the br I'm like I'm probably the guy with the brush. They're sweeping. You need a sweeper. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a good sweeper.

SPEAKER_03

That's what I like to do.

SPEAKER_00

That's what my wife says I do at home.

SPEAKER_03

The four kids sweeping after them. Yeah, so I'll give it to Ken.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Um, all right, let's move on to tennis. Uh, so you've made three out of the last four major finals to reach world number one again. What have you learned over the last year?

SPEAKER_03

Um I guess to never give up. Um, to be resilient. Um obviously played with Joe Salisby last year and came up short in the French Open and the US Open. Um having the match points of the US Open. It I mean it didn't take it out to me, but it just kind of gave me more energy to kind of go again and uh and to have its fine margins and doubles when I went back a couple of years ago after being number one and then I went down the rankings. I wasn't settled with a partner. Um I played with like Santi Gonzalez, um played a little bit with Mike Venus, and then played with Joe Salisbury. So I was I went down to about maybe 30 or 40, and it was like, can I get back to world number one? Can I make grand slam finals again? Um and I needed a settle down with a partner that I trusted. And yeah, I think that's where I found Joe Salisbury, um, multiple Grand Slam winner, and another Brit. We could play the Olympics together, we could play Davis Cup together. Um, and then to kind of have Ken as our coach and travel. Um it was kind of uh we had a structure that we could kind of believe in, and I think that's what I needed. Uh, I think what that's what Joe needed, and then um yeah, it's this it's the start of a new year this year with Christian Harrison. Uh I was very excited when we decided to play together at the end of last year. And yeah, once once he agreed, I was I was very excited. Um and also kind of give me a bit more fire about making Grand Slam finals again. I knew Christian, he was on the up, he's got a lot of firepower, and I think that's what kind of what I needed. Um he brings a lot of energy to the court and it kind of keeps me going, which is which is great. It's got me going more than ever really, I think, and um yeah, very focused on staying at world number one, trying to get Christian higher in the rankings, and uh obviously have a good year, and our goal is to finish number one as a team.

Building A Partnership With Harrison

SPEAKER_01

So I spoke with Christian about a month and a half ago when y'all were together in Baton Rouge training. At the time during that training, did you have a sense that yes, we can win a major this year? Yes, we can win the Australian Open, or did you feel like the level was there or you're still kind of working through things at the time?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I totally believe that our level was there. It just depended if we could put it all together. Um I didn't think we could well, I thought we could win the Australian Open, but I didn't think really it would happen straight away. Um during the week in Baton Rouge, it was more the fact to kind of get Christian more adapted to the British system. Um I was I was telling him a lot of things, how how we train, how we practice, how we warm up before matches, um, having the stats, having the uh looking at videos before the nights before, having little team meetings. Um, and I think that's what has helped him a lot as well. I think he needed a bit more structure. Um and uh he's I believe I think he's enjoying the partnership from uh from what he uh how he acts. Um so am I. So it's it's definitely something um that came very early in the partnership. I still believe there's a lot of work to do. Um and that's where we obviously we got Ken involved and Louis Caillet back in back in England, having the statisticians at the LTA to help us get to where we want to be. And yeah, we just want to keep improving every day. If we put the practice in on the court, uh day in, day out, um, good things will happen, in our opinion.

SPEAKER_01

Ken, how do you think about your own improvement as a coach? Obviously, you you played, so you can relate to what's going on on the court for them, but um, coaches have to improve as well, right? If Neil wants to improve his serve from one year to the next, it's very obvious.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What about for coaches? How do you improve your your serve or your return? What are the things you think about improving?

Coaching Growth And British System

SPEAKER_00

I think a lot of it to do for me is is man management, to sort of know when to say stuff, when to just be quiet and let the let the guys settle. And you know, I can sometimes in practice you've got people who can speak too much, but it's also quite important to not say much as well. And I think finding that balance. Um I I think we obviously have a have a good, you know, good relationship as brothers. I mean, some you hear some brothers that don't get along, but we get along great. And yeah, I mean, I I think there'll be times where he might not necessarily always agree with me and we talk about it and we find a solution. Um the difficulty uh you always find is adding someone else to that team. Sometimes it comes with a coach as well. And for the first time, we've got a situation where I I'm in control of both players. Um, and again, as Neil said, is trying to get you know both players in harmony, trying to get them up to speed in the same way. And and and there is an element of you know, the British culture that we've we've created with you know, Brits doing really well, is I think it Christine wanted to be part of that and and and he's been very open and very sort of understanding of he's brought a certain you know his tennis is there, but to create the professional tennis player as well, that that sort of brings everything, whether it's you know, on court, off-court, preparation, all that type of stuff. That's my job to make sure he's aware of all these different things and make him feel comfortable as well. And I I can't compliment both of them enough because they're both sort of hit the ground running in terms of all them things. Um, in Baton Rouge, you know, from a from a coaching perspective. I was watching the videos of I wasn't actually there, but I had videos to sort of analyze every single practice. And I and I think it's just do it doing that sort of extra little bit of work to sort of really see what what each player brings to the court and how we can make that effective on a match court. Um, and I think we talked about it before, is obviously the the way the game's gone is so much about power and big serves and and and using it effectively because it it's great to have a massive serve, but if it only goes in 60% of the time, then it's not as good as someone who hits it maybe five miles an hour slower but hits it at 85%. If you hit your spots and you get the ball in play more often, it's making sure that when the stats that I read are effective for what Christian brings, or if they're not, is to sort of explain maybe you might have to rein something in, or maybe choose a better shot, or maybe that you know option of you playing in a certain formation hasn't worked because you know you're only winning two out of ten. So it's adapting to sort of the environment that you're in with having two guys. Um but I couldn't compliment Christian as a as a professional. He's he seems to be really good and very keen to learn. And it's always easier for a coach in that sense. You know, we have we haven't had any sort of disagreements. He's he's a yes uh type of guy, you know. Like, you know, we made we sort of made fun of the situation in Australia. It was like I saluted him after the final because it was almost like he'd completed his mission, yeah, you know. Um, and that and that was what we were treating it like. We were going to war, we were, we were sort of backing each other. Um, and it's finding them fun little things to sort of give them to go on court. And so far that's worked. Um, I'm gonna have to find something else. But he's he's got his touch this week in in uh in Dallas. So we're gonna have to try and figure out something for his sort of next uh next mission.

SPEAKER_01

Did you feel like in Australia, and either one of you can answer this? Um we talked about the the first match, you know, lost the first set, and then after that didn't drop another set. I think only played maybe two tiebreakers, which is um a crazy low amount, especially for men's doubles. Um do you feel like you kind of got the ball rolling after that first match and it was just kind of a bitum from there? Uh or how did you experience kind of the two weeks? Were there some kind of bumps in the roads, even though the score lines maybe didn't show it?

SPEAKER_03

Um I mean, we we'd played the week before in Adelaide. I think we you never know how a new partnership's gonna turn out. Um there's obviously gonna be a few things that you need to iron out pretty early on. Um and I think from the first match we we played in Adelaide, it was Matos and Orlando Luz, difficult team. They'd already played five matches, hadn't they? Yeah, they'd played the week before, I think in Brisbane maybe. So they were up to speed already. Um but we we won that match. We played a good first match of the season. Um and there was yeah, we we saw in that match there was a few little things that we needed to sort out before going to Australia. Um we lost in the semis to Putin Krabiat, but we actually played a very good match. Um I thought we may have been the better team for a good amount of that, but that's obviously doubles at the ATP level. You lose the last 10 minutes, then um you're at the tournament. Um so we went into Australia with confidence, even though we'd only played a couple of matches together. Uh, and then we played against Walner and Schneiter, who had never played before, but can be a very difficult team. They they played a good first set, and then um in the second set we were both I was love 40 down and then Christine was love 40 down in our service games. Um and just to get through their moments, we knew it was huge. Um coming through big moments, you get belief, uh you gain confidence, you have trust in your trust in your partner. Um, and then we kind of we kind of put it all together at the same time. Um and we just kind of rode with that and won that match, and then we took it into the next match, and it was it was from there we kind of yeah, we we found our level. Uh when we I think both play well at the same time, we're a very, very dangerous team. And especially with Christian serve, um his returns, we can go through games very very quickly. I just need to be ready for that. Um especially during his service games, he could just go ace, ace, ace, and I haven't touched the ball. So it's one of those things where I've just got to get used to that as well. Um, but yeah, we took a lot of confidence from getting through that first first round. Um yeah, like you said, it was we came through tough matches, and I think the big match was the quarterfinals. I mean, we played Noosa and Rickle. I had lost them the year before with with Salisbury and Adelaide. Um, and we we played a nearly a flawless match. We we just we destroyed them earlier. Um, and then that gave us so much confidence against Grenola Zabios, who I've struggled with in the last couple of years, uh especially in big finals. And to get through that was was huge for both of us. And yeah, it was it was a very tough final against Pullmans and Kubler. Uh the roof was closed, which was something that we weren't hadn't practice for. Uh, they closed it a couple of minutes before walking onto the court. Um, and then them two, they they brought a bigger a big level. Um, we we had to raise ours, and that's what we did.

Australian Open Run Deconstructed

SPEAKER_00

I think it's also Grand Slam tennis, it's long. Like it's it's a long two weeks. And and we've always talked about you have to break them up, you have to break it into two separate tournaments. First three rounds, and then the second three rounds. You you don't win the tournament in the first week, you get through the first week, and it gives you the opportunity. Generally, once you win the quarterfinal stage, you take all eight teams, they're all playing well, they've all had three matches. There's a probably if they're not seeded, they've beaten seeds. So everyone's playing well. And I think once you can get on a run of how many times in the season do you win three matches in a row? You know, you you have to make finals somewhere else, you know. Um, so that that that is one thing I've always sort of tried to get into them is like don't think about winning the Grand Slam. Win week one, get to the end of week one, and then we'll address where we're at. And then let's go into week two. And the idea is we're playing well, we're playing really well. And then it's just about executing in the big moments. And as you know, we got a walk over almost, what was it, round of 16? Three or five love, we sort of had a rough idea what was going to happen in that match. Um, and it's nice to get through that because it's the it's a day of less stress. Yeah, um, and it's nice to sort of, you know, as you show, even though it's thing, you know, singles and doubles, it's completely different. It's nice to just have a little bit of downtime in the middle of a grand slam where it's not every day. And I and the other thing for me with Neil is as he's got older, the two Grand Slams, he's won his last first round and mixed. And sometimes it's, you know, the extra stress of having more matches in the tournament can sometimes have an effect not just on him, but on any doubles player. And just the way the schedule can fall, where you play one evening in a mixed doubles and then you're first or second on the next day in doubles, it's a quick turnaround. And and you've got to be ready for it. So I'm not saying you shouldn't play mixed ever again, but I do believe that it does have an have an effect if you are unlucky with the schedule. Um, and and again, especially in Australia, if you're playing in four to four degrees, you'd be unlucky and playing on the wrong day, you know, and you need to conserve your energy if that's the main event. And fortunately, in some ways, Nickyos did us a favor.

SPEAKER_01

He means 44 degrees uh Celsius. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

113 Fahrenheit for the American listeners.

SPEAKER_01

Um have you looked at your mixed results and seen how they correlate with uh your men's doubles to see if there is like an effect? Because I was looking at your I think it was your Wikipedia page earlier today, and I uh you didn't play a lot of mixed, right?

SPEAKER_00

I wasn't ranked high enough. I wanted to.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. I feel like it's it's changed a lot recently. Like over the years when Ken was playing, a lot more of the top guys would play. Yeah. A lot a lot now, they tend to kind of not a lot of the top guys play, like Brunel is a bios. I know they they never play. Yeah. And they seem to be at the end of men's doubles events, whatever top they play in. Um, so I think it was much tougher in obviously in a master series. Ken never was fortunate to play a master series, and he was career I was 44.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_03

I think it's like, yeah, I know guys that a lot lower these days play master series nearly all the time. So it's I think things have changed over the years, and um, I think Ken is just a little bit unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um, talk a little more about you you mentioned that you'll you'll get along well, obviously being brothers, but also coach player relationship. Um, how does that work? Do you try to like compartmentalize like both relationships, or do you find a way to like blend it? And then if you can share, like when you do get into an argument or disagreement, I imagine you have to. I mean, your your brothers and your coach player. Um, how do you handle it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean we've never really argued that much, have we? We don't really fall out that much, uh if ever.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I yeah, I don't I don't remember our last argument about tennis or in life.

SPEAKER_00

No, and I think it's because we're we like the same things. Yeah. We love football, soccer, love soccer, we love LSU, we love coffee, you know. We we we we don't we love golf, we don't we don't have like a complicated life. It's quite simple. And you know, we're both in long-term relationships, you know, you'll be married soon. But um, you know, I've got wife and four kids. He loves my family. Uh you know, it we're a very close-knit family, and and and that's you know, I I sometimes wonder how other people don't have that situation, yeah, rather than like think we're unusual because we do get along, you know.

SPEAKER_03

But I think Ken's always been kind of the the coach anyway, even from a younger age or when I came out of college when we started playing together. Um that's maybe when we had a few more arguments when I was a little bit immature, and uh Ken was when we were traveling together, and Ken was been on tour for six six years before. Um and then we started playing together, playing the he came down to play the futures challenges. Um I think that's where it the arguments may have happened a little bit. Um but nowadays I know how I think we both know how difficult tennis is. Um and to add extra stress to it is only gonna Hurt you in the short term, in the long run. Um, so yeah, I think it helps that Ken's been around the tour for a long time. He knows what happens, what how it's like.

Managing Load, Mixed Doubles, Scheduling

SPEAKER_00

I know as a player what it feels like to lose a match in a certain scenario. I know sometimes when nerves are kicking in on certain scenarios, I I know them feelings. I'd never got to do that at a grand slam, you know, final or anything like that, but they don't necessarily change the feelings, you know. Um, and I and I'm well aware of, you know, I I could name everything about him in terms of a tennis player, um, but also as the as a person. And when it when things, you know, I can see in his eyes sometimes, you know, it other people might not see it. But that's where I'm lucky is as a brother, you do get that sort of sixth sense. Um but it's yeah, it's it's it's been great. I mean, it's been great, and my and my sort of transition from player to coach has been seamless because fortunately it's with my brother. I think it would be a lot more challenging if I had done it with someone I didn't know, you know, and and and not a brother and and sort of found my way as a coach. I I feel like I've learned a lot and I could potentially then go on to work with other players now. Um but yeah, I think over the years I've always felt like I've mentored him and tried to sort of steer him in the right direction. And and his professionalism has gone through the roof. He's much more professional than I ever was. Um, and credit to him for that, and he's and he's reaped the rewards for it. Um, so yeah, I mean, I I not that I live my life through his tennis career, but I'm envious of everything that he ended up achieving because I I wanted it as well. And I just was unfortunately never capable of doing it, whether it's from a performance level or mentally, even you know, I don't know. But yeah, I mean, a bit unfortunate, I would say, with the with the way the rankings worked at the time, because I always feel you always had to play up, always had to find someone higher, and we were always on the same ranking. And when we did obviously end up doing well together, I got a you know, a blood clot in my leg, which put set me back basically, not ended my career, but I basically started again mentally when I started playing again after that. And I sort of knew that at that stage that was it, and I was 37, whatever. But yeah, that's you know, that's another story.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it still seems cool to be a part of the team and see what your brother's doing there, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Like Yeah, I mean I mean he broke my duck because he'd done really well. And he'd won Eastbourne grass court, he'd won Queens grass court, he'd won Wimbledon grass court tournament. We'd never won another tournament together. He'd made about 15 other finals, but we'd never won a hardcore title or a clay title. So I'm glad we've got that one out of the way with Australia. So um, yeah, I just need to complete the set now with clay. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I wanted to talk about the drill you were doing earlier uh at the practice facility in there. Um it's one of my favorite drills, the the server's partner, I guess, is what it's called. Um you're working on that with both Neil and Christian. Yeah. Um describe that drill for the listeners and what's going through your head as the coach as you're kind of feeding it and what you're looking for from the player.

Brother Dynamic: Coach And Player

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um it's a it's a drill that all the Brits British guys do really well. Um I would say it's the it's the drill that I would say probably sets the British guys apart compared to the other guys. And I think it sort of comes from being absolutely particular with every single move, whether it's hand movements, whether it's with you know, body movements and and footwork. Um so a lot of the guys sort of set up in a position which is um most of the time it's from eye formation because they play a lot of eye formation. And you know, you just using Christian as the example is he wasn't necessarily setting up with his footwork, you know, where his feet started before the serve was hit when I'd seen him on video. So it was just making sure that every time you sort of get set up and the first move that you make, it has to be neutral, it has to be so particular that the guy who's returning the serve doesn't know where you're gonna move because it's two steps. It's it's that initial step and then move to your position based on whether the server is moving left or right, and then in the net player left or right, also. Um so to make sure that that is the most critical so that the the returner doesn't know where the player is then moving. And then from there, it's being effective to sort of read the play, knowing where the returner potentially can hit the ball. And once they make contact with the ball, is where the ball goes. Um, and a lot of the time, you know, you see a lot of guys, they they tend to feel like they have to add power. So the racket goes back behind their head or to the side. And the British guys do a really good job of keeping the hand out in front and minimizing the racket work, so the ball sort of deflects off the racket. Um, because there just isn't enough time, and I and I try to feed it. I mean, Neil could tell me whether the pace of the feed is fast enough, but I I feel like I try to feed it as fast as I possibly can because I want them to be able to, you know, cognitively figure things out as quick as possible. So when they play anybody with a fast serve or fast return, it just becomes second nature to deal with balls at that pace. Um, and again, I I think Neil had put him in the top three in the world in that position.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, not just from you know technically, but from a read-in perspective. Um, and it helps when Christian's banging down 200k serves all a time. Um and it but it but it again, as Neil sort of alluded to before, it's important that he stays focused.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because if you play with a player that you feel like you're touching the ball all the time, that's fine. That's great because you're obviously being effective. The problem is if you don't touch the ball for five minutes, yeah, but that one point is juice point, yeah, and you're just not switched on, it's more important than anything to be ready. Um, so that's the the other thing that we need to sort of keep up with. And that that will come with matches as well.

SPEAKER_01

How do you think about um so I guess there's two follow-up questions to that? One is you mentioned trying to simulate the the pace. So if Christian is serving really big at 200k, the return is probably more likely to come back with more pace too, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so they've got to kind of be ready for that. And then you're trying to simulate that in this drill. Can you also do that by just stepping closer to the net?

SPEAKER_00

You can, but you do need some type of um trigger. Once that once the serve comes, yeah, you obviously need to have some type of split because you're obviously going to go either way. If you just stayed completely still, it could be effective.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I still believe that from a rhythm perspective, you want to create that uncertainty for your opponent. If you just stayed still, that then your reach is only as good as one move.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But with the fact that they make an initial step, whether it's left or right, compared to where the serve is, whether it's down the T or out wide, that initial step gives them that forward momentum to then be able to reach even further.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um and again, uh it's what's worked for him. And it doesn't necessarily mean it works for everybody. Um, and and being closer, I think I remember uh Kubot and Marack playing back when I was playing, and Marack was literally underneath the net. Kubot had a big first serve, and Marack would just pop up and just knock the volley off.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So for him, that really worked, and and he was really effective with it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But again, everybody's different, and and and Christian is literally like a jack in the box when he's doing it. He he almost does the drill too fast, yeah, in the sense that he he he finishes his shot and he does a good job with it, and he's also trying to get the next one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that's not how serving and doing that drill works.

SPEAKER_01

Usually the ball didn't come down.

SPEAKER_00

No, it doesn't come back. So it it's I it's basically resetting and sort of compartmentalizing every single one of them to make sure that it's it's effective. So I have to slow him down, and I think he probably gets a tiny bit frustrated with me telling them to slow down, but it's just to replicate exactly as you talk about. Once that ball is made contact with, you you you need to be doing exactly the same thing in practice as you would in a match. You're not bouncing up and down like a yo-yo. You know, it's it's it's key to sort of practice exactly what you preach in a match situation.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, I wonder. So you answered the question of like the the net player, the server's partner standing closer. Yeah. I'm wondering just also to simulate um more pace, if you as the coach could just step forward more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and you can replicate second serves in that sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think they're they're taking the results.

SPEAKER_00

I think going back to the idea of being really close, yeah. If you actually just think of the angles of the court, if let's say you started super close and you were feeding cross to move sideways, you're actually moving backwards.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh so that's why having that initial step forwards, even though you're a tiny bit further away, it gives you the freedom to reach forward, yeah. Uh rather than having to dive sideways, which in theory is backwards.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh from the from the I'm not very good with my angles, but it seems like that that also has a relevance.

SPEAKER_01

No, I totally agree.

SPEAKER_03

That's one of the big things that Christian had to learn as service partner, because last year he played all with Evan King, being a lefty. So he was moving into different kinds of spots of the net compared to when he claimed to be effective. Now he's playing with a righty like me. Uh, his angles are a little bit different than where he has to move at the net. Um, because Evan, say on the ad side, used to swing people wide. So Christian would cover more of the down the line shot. Um, but with me, me being a righty, I can't get that much angle on the ad side out wide because I'm I can't swing it wide, it's kind of a bit more flat. So he doesn't have to kind of cover the line as much. He can be a bit more central and take out more of the middle shots. Um, but that's taken a few, that's taken time. Um that's one thing that he kept on repeating saying, I've just got to get used to a righty instead of a lefty, and also the pace of my serve compared to Evans just a split when he's at the net. It's just a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's it's also the the unconscious part of server's partner is when the ball hits the ground, when Neil, let's say Neil serves or Christian serves, and they call T, but the the T is a very good T serve, you sort of know that the player can't go down the line.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They can't pull it because the ball is hit so well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they're like they're gonna be.

The Serve-Plus-One Volley Drill

SPEAKER_00

So they almost can they can they can they can almost cheat further over to the other side. And I think that comes with playing together, sort of knowing what each other are capable of. And it and it evolves in all parts, all aspects of doubles, you know, knowing what your return, your your partner's returns are capable of when they're pushed into certain corners. And and again, that that's understanding each other and and knowing the the nuances of each player.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I love this stuff. We I could talk about this all day, but I know you all have to run. Uh last thing. Um, did y'all see the same query comments yesterday?

SPEAKER_00

Top 40.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We've yeah, yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Have you already talked about it?

SPEAKER_03

Uh we have the show a little bit. We had a brief chat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Are you gonna be politically correct right now, or do you do you want to share share what you honestly think? So he thinks he could be or so he said any combination of them four. Any combination of those four. So so Sam, Steve Johnson, uh John Isner, and Jack Sock. Yeah, they play for 12 months and they can be top 40.

SPEAKER_03

Now they obviously need some wild cards in there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I assume he means we could get to a top 40 level. If they if they didn't get the wild cards, like the answer is clearly no. And I think they know that. Like it's just too difficult to get through the challengers and everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I I think it's one of those comments that it gets a bit of traction.

SPEAKER_01

It does. It does, it gets that's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. They're all exceptional tennis players.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Sam Query, you know, he obviously made the comments. He's had a he's had his pickleball injury. Is he is he capable of being physically capable of running around a tennis score anymore? I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know either.

SPEAKER_00

Um, you know, that you know, that some of the guys are getting a bit older. Um, you know, I I don't think they can just pick up a record and start playing ATP doubles or just assume that they're gonna win loads of matches. I I I think I think the guys are you know that that struggle to begin with. Um they do have capabilities of doing well, don't get me wrong. And I mean it depends on which combination you would put together. I I think obviously we we all we all knew Jack Soccer's probably the one of the best doubles players in the world at the time when he was doing really well with uh with Mike. Yes, um and with John. And he did well with John, yeah. Don't get me right. Yeah, they both did well. And and John's a unique player, isn't he? Obviously, his size. I yeah, I had a terrible record against him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he's had some good doubles results. Yeah, I mean, I would say he'd probably be the second of the four, maybe.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, no doubt they're gonna be very good tennis players.

SPEAKER_03

Do they do are they gonna practice for a little bit and then play, or or do you just pick up a record now and play?

SPEAKER_00

The reality is, is it just talk or have they got any interest in doing it?

SPEAKER_01

No, they don't have interest.

SPEAKER_00

They have no interest in so what what's the point in talking about it? It's like it would be interesting if if they actually talked about it and actually decided, you know what? Let's let's see. Let's actually see.

SPEAKER_01

I think that they have to, you know, every three to six months have to make some kind of jab at doubles. I think it's just like part of their marketing plan. Just to kind of get a get get a little uh I don't know, buzz going, I guess.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean I think I think I mean I honestly don't know how much they play anymore.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

Um but obviously at when they were playing towards the end, they were still they were still winning matches at very high level. Yeah. Doubles, Jack, John, Stevie, and Query. I think I actually I think I actually retired Sam at the US Open. Him and Stevie. I'm pretty sure. Um but I mean the level at the time was still great, and if if they had played full doubles, which they they won't do, um they could have obviously been very, very high in the rankings.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe even top 20, top 10. I mean, Jack was incredible when he was playing, John as well. So I think them guys at the time, when they were playing, they could make it definitely top 40. I mean they did, but I mean, when they were they could even be top 10 when they were playing. Now I don't know how much tennis they play.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So as you say, it it gets it gets podcast traction. I think that's exactly what they do with it.

SPEAKER_03

Now we're talking about it.

SPEAKER_01

So well, I think I think the thing is like the the thing you mentioned about the doubles training, right? It's like they like Sam and Steve played some doubles, yeah, but they never trained specifically for doubles. No, but like they didn't have doubles volleys.

SPEAKER_03

Like I mean, Steve Stevie played a lot in in college, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01

That's true. Yeah, so he's true.

SPEAKER_03

Stevie he knows his way around the the net. Um and I think a lot of the some of them guys they don't need to, like with Isna, he's got unbelievable serves. Yeah, he doesn't really need to, and then if he played with Jack or or Sam or Stevie, their serve probably they'd be hitting big serves, and then they won't need to do the the stuff that we do at the net. Right. They'll probably have easy pickoffs.

SPEAKER_01

Um but that's the question is like if if they train when when people get into this debate, it's like if they trained four doubles, how well could they develop the double skills? You might talk about like Medvedev would probably struggle with it a little bit, right? But like Alcaraz would figure it out, you know. So it's like for me, that's how I'd view it. And like it just depends on the player.

SPEAKER_00

And I think for for me, I think I have to give credit. They they obviously won a lot of matches, but a lot of the time they were getting entries with their singles ranking. For sure, you know, and and I think you know, the these doubles guys that they all deserve you know respect because to make it to top 40, uh something I never achieved. I I knew how many matches you had to win at the challenger level to then break it through into the uh 250 level. And and at the time when I was you know getting to 40 or whatever, I'd have to make five or six 250 finals. It's not as easy as people make it out to be. Just because it's doubles, it just it's and it and it's a different skill set, doesn't make it any easier. Um and yeah, I think if you if your singles ranking is high enough and you're playing Master Series and you're playing for the equivalent number of points of double of what a 250 is every match, you're obviously going to get a good enough ranking. Because if you're good enough to win matches at 250, you're basically playing the same sort of guys at Master Series level. And sometimes you play singles guys who don't necessarily even want to be there.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know, you know, there's so I mean if you look back at all the walkovers that get given across the the year at Masters and Grand Slums, yeah, it's wild. I'd say 85, 90% of it is is actual singles guys that just can't be bothered no more.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So all them points you can accumulate that people are getting all around the year of free points.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um it's a weird system.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's frustrating. It's frustrating. And some people get a little bit of luck along the way, and it's it's nice when it goes your way, but it's it's it doesn't always go that way.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but yeah, I mean, fundamentally, it if they're never going to do it, then what you know they can say they could why do they not say top 10?

Angles, Formations, And Net Reads

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, might as well. Awesome guys. Thanks a ton for doing this. I appreciate you coming on, and uh best of luck here in Dallas.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.