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Doubles Only Tennis Podcast
The only tennis podcast with a focus on doubles. We believe doubles should be more popular and get more coverage than it does, so we’re fixing that. Our goal is to help you become a better player with pro doubles tips and expert strategy. We interview ATP & WTA tour doubles players and top tennis coaches to help you improve your game.
Doubles Only Tennis Podcast
Dan Kiernan on Coaching Roles, Partnership Breakups, His 105% Rule, The Top of WTA Doubles, & More
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Coach Dan Kiernan returns to the show, this time with Tennis Tribe doubles writer Hanlon Walsh from the Cincinnati Open.
They discussed Dan's role coaching an ATP and a WTA doubles player in the same tournament. You'll hear specifics on logistical planning, team communication, and the stat-driven ideas that create sustainable success.
- Balancing coaching duties across two players with different routines
- Deciding which tournaments to play and why preparation often beats chasing points
- Dan's 105% rule
- How Gaby Dabrowski's partnership with Luisa Stefani compares to her previous partnership with Erin Routliffe
- Why doubles teams split or stay together
- Why "assumption-based communication" is dangerous - club players do this all the time
- The rankings and entry problem that forces creative partner choices
- The current women’s doubles landscape and why the majors reward top teams more
- Men’s doubles narratives and how ATP governance and ego is creating unnecessary problems
Learn more about Dan & follow:
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What The Conversation Covers
SPEAKER_00This is the final interview with Twin Four Blood Human Wall from the Open. This time he took the one with one of our favorite podcasts was one or coaching two different players, Robert Doralski and Andre Gordon. We thought about talking about how he balances his role as the coach of WTP player or the WP player. And then also balancing his Rob Running and the Caribbean. He's also a podcast where he has one of my favorite podcasts of uh control the controllable. So don't worry about a lot of different parts and we'll talk about how he balances all of that. Um dive into how Gabby and Android decide which wants to play or with who. After that, going forward with 105% rule and how to win over the fourth white teams will stick together and white teams break up. And when I heard about a thought of tons of club double doubles things, so if you are trying to become a better, better doubles partner, which you could do, uh definitely listen to that part of this conversation. Uh, a little bit on the singles versus doubles rivalry that has been created on the men's side, and then Henry Patton's role as the quote prime minister of men's doubles. And so this is a fun conversation, about 30 minutes or so. Um, I really enjoyed listening to it. I always love hearing from Dan. Uh, and Hamlon did a great job of conducting this interview. So without further delay, enjoy this chat with Hamlin Walsh and Dan Kiernan.
Coaching Two Players In One Week
SPEAKER_01All right, so Dan, tell me how you've been balancing coaching duties with Gabby and Andre this week and just throughout the year so far.
SPEAKER_02Well, actually, luckily luckily one of them likes to get up early and one of them doesn't. I'll let people guess. I'll let uh you know let people guess on that that yeah, so that that's I guess what I I've now got three or four years and I've worked with 12 man as a retail team. And I guess that word actually team is quite an important word because I think a lot of especially myself, my background in doubles, college, they don't get a lot of team feeling in tennis, and that can be quite individual and white. Whereas actually I think all the players that I've worked with, they've enjoyed that team element as well. You know, the girls coming off the boys, the boys coming off the girls, you know, sharing items.
SPEAKER_01The younger group textbook of them at the same time.
SPEAKER_02I am, yeah, I am. So, you know, everyone everyone gets on well. Um, because of that, and again, this would be the other thing I see on doubles most most doubles players are very reasonable. A lot of them have gone to college, they're a little bit more mature, you know, they've got maybe a little bit more empathy towards other people, too. So there's not never been an issue. But what I also do have is I've got some kind of strong protocols in place if something does happen where they play at the same time, uh service in practices, and like I've always had the power to go to my goals. Thank you so much. Yeah. So when my first round of gambling, it was actually the first message of the gambler there and played. Their second round I was with Harry and Lloyd, because they're all at the same time, and I got to their call. So yeah, they got their three steps falling down and stern actually. So there is sometimes it happens more as slams than anyway. Most of the ATP job we take on by the vaccine, you put the replacement and they ignore what people slap first. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. When he was the third. So three uh young Canadian guy.
SPEAKER_02So he he got into I've been helping him kind of more remotely than anything, but we've not made him for that year. Okay. Uh and I told what my request to it was three days of doubles, first rounds. I looked at the Wednesday schedule, nobody was on.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02So okay. Looked at the Thursday schedule, all three times of the five.
SPEAKER_01At 11am. Okay.
SPEAKER_02So you so those are the things you want, you don't want to be dealing with those things in the moment, which is why having having that all kind of put out beforehand, then you just go on to protocol. Rather than oh, by the way, guys, what should we do about this? You know that's the last thing a player needs when they're preparing for a for a match. So all in all, it works well, it it complements pretty well. It doesn't complement as well after US Open because there's less combined events.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So US Open onwards gets a little bit triffier. Um but I guess I don't like to use the word priority, but I guess Gabby I've been there for a long time now. So Andre also understands that I'm there to help him, but I'm really well weak that I'm already there with Gabby and Wallers and Twice.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, is it kind of based on like the retention of your player? I mean, like working at our firm, like if we I'm just thinking about it in our shoes, like when we have longer clients, you know, the the oldest client always gets the priority over if we have like any conflicts of interest similar to that's that's really the way that we've done it, you know.
SPEAKER_02Like it's like I think it's the only way. Like I know movie Kai is an example that he's gonna get issued than me because he often has kind of seven or eight British pairs at these events in he doesn't unwind two.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. That's a really good one I was gonna ask you that. I don't know how that was part of it too.
SPEAKER_02I think like look, I my setup supply is set up, that's a federation setup.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, that's okay.
SPEAKER_02So that's very different, so makes more sense against from Federation's team. But yeah, look, ultimately, all the players know I'm available 24-7.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm here for life. You know, if that means I'm giving a very, very early session and a very late session, the same obviously with the scouting, the same with all of that. You know, they I think they all by now that I'm professional and I'm I'm very connected to them, you know, trying to do the best they can, and that's what my job is a coach, as well as to add down into their journeys. So I I I think there's enough trust there now connection that um we we never have any issues. And we then like I said we have some fun from a social standpoint, yeah. Our team's a bit bigger and we all get on great. And I don't think it would work, and I don't think I would do it if it wasn't the case, you know. Like that's part of the process of me going into these relationships, is that I know that we're like-minded, we've got similar values, we uh we're on that same wavelength. Because the last thing I want to be is just a mercenary who's there to carry the bags and say a few words to a person who I don't really like or get honest. You know, that's that's not really my job. Yeah, but more than enough than all my worlds to not need to do it for outside of
Protocols For Schedule Conflicts
SPEAKER_02that.
SPEAKER_01Well, how do you are you are you with them like on the you know non-Slan masters weeks, like in the 250s and 500s, or something? How does that work like from a week's on tour standpoint?
SPEAKER_02Sometimes look, it's it's kind of my secondary job.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, your academy, right?
SPEAKER_02And I've got a podcast, which obviously that's more like a kind of fun side side thing.
SPEAKER_01Enjoy your round tables also, I'll listen to some of those too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you. Yeah, no, no, I love doing that in this. I love I take a lot from those, you know, and personally I take a lot from just those conversations and being lucky to have these conversations in tennis, you're able to tennis people. And if other people enjoy them, it's brilliant as well. But that's there's more financial gains than that. That's more of a thing that I just love giving and having the opportunity to have those conversations. I in terms of ask the question at the 250s, 500, I pretty much am doing every grand Standard Masters in the Model 1000 events. Um and I don't assume they ever want me. So at the end of every event, it's like you guys ask me if you want me to go, they've done it, and I'm not I'm not arrogant enough to sit there and think they want me to go there because they are them cash, you know, and they don't it's not for me to assume that I'm gonna have value. So so when we we kind of break it down into probably five or six conversations a year, okay, there's the next period, what works out best, what's your priority?
SPEAKER_01Between the different swings of it.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, you know, like so I asked Gabby after Wimbledon and around Wimbledon time what's her priority, and I know that the priority was was around US Open and then the next double for US Open, and then if possible Cincinnati. And then a couple of days later, actually, is Toronto possible as well. You know, but it was kind of an overview that she was giving me. Um in the end, I couldn't purchase Toronto for personal reasons, but it's getting getting that right balance. But the grass books, you know, we want to explore one to reach me around this little 250s, 500 was preparation. You know, for windows and Gabby now over three years, and we know what she likes and how she prepares. So Gabby end up to the getting a little bit less. Gabby's not looking at points to the right not to. You know, that's not her. Gabby's looking to prepare to win getting a record. So if that was why the redemptive example, we went to the 250 and it's gone on the 500 and buy one more because it doesn't matter if it's 250 or 500. She prefers being in England, let's travel similar conditions to Windows. So then we go to that event. Yeah, you know. Whereas maybe a player a little bit more than Andre is in.
SPEAKER_01So where's Andre ring for it? It's like the 40s, 30s, 40s.
SPEAKER_02But it's he's on that test where he has to be a little bit more smart in terms of need to be able to do that, without obviously that taking over his performance as well. So, yeah, so there's no golden rule. Um this year, me and Gabby, so that three the first three times Joaha Dubai, and I'm not saying this because of Moon, but just after Australia didn't get it right, she went to Johan Dubai without myself and the full team, and she didn't win a match in two years. So that this year we prioritised Doha and Dubai as right okay to have conversation with my wife and family and the family, but we're gonna go after Australia, we're gonna go do Doh Maddy and see if we can really do that right. And she went seven to lead one divide this year. So it's constantly making those shifts on where the best use of time is, whilst also understanding the other 12 months, it's a long 12 months. Yeah. If you're not deep in your tournaments, we also need to take your time where you're not gonna be able to deep performing with the very best of the how do you take your three or four weeks to rest here? How do you take the time to look after your body here?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's that ever-evolving situation where um which is a funny part of the job as well, I think. Trying to find solutions uh to those potential problems.
Choosing Events And Building A Season
SPEAKER_01How would you um compare the difference between like Gabby and Aaron and their playing style and like how you coach them versus Gabby and Louisa Stevani, her current partner?
SPEAKER_02Good question, though. It's a good question that's difficult to answer without one and something and two difficulty away. Um look, I think I think fundamentally there's a lot of big similarities. Yeah. You know, and ultimately I thought about this 105% more flying while going into every single detail. I know the percentage of service games plus return games, you need to be willing to be really with Ralph Slang. And that will that will differ with game styles because you've got you've got your returners, or two returners, or let's say you've got a loss of angle playing with a similar, they're probably gonna break serve more and get open more. You know, so they're with a slow that's around a hundred and hundred and fifteen, a hundred and eighteen percent of the games that you should be winning. It's also with a loss of ankle and soon win, maybe they're holding 70% and breaking 40 games, something like that. Whereas I would say that Gavian Ernest numbers are very similar to what Gavian Louisa's numbers are, you know, so so we know that they need to be holding serve X amount of times. So I can say for the service games downtown, it's very similar. Yeah. We know that uh, you know, big certain volumes serve serve well in the squads player, probably more games type doubles on little service games.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, more traditional rush than that.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and you know, getting getting touch as a service partner. When I saw Pabby play with Alexandrova last week, and it's completely different, you know. So like if Gabby must play with Alexandrova, it was a fantastic tennis player, that would be a big shift in terms of right how do we strategically work here. And we'll try and solutions, yeah. You know, in in the space of 24 hours, it's not too easy to do. Whereas the change from Aaron and Cablet of Louisa and Cabinet really is not a big C change. You know, there's certain areas that Louisa brings that maybe Aaron didn't, you know, statistically, you know, I'd be on that side of things to take the emotion out, and there's certain things that maybe Aaron did that Louisa didn't. So there has been some adjustments, um, you know, but I think overarchingly really quite similar. Yeah. Or in game style, you then obviously have different personalities who have different practice styles, you have different cultures in the team, you have different friends that are part of the team. These are the things, the unseen things, you know.
SPEAKER_01The social aspects and the behind-the-scenes
The 105 Percent Rule Explained
SPEAKER_01pieces.
SPEAKER_02How they like to warm up for matches. Like Aaron and Gabby didn't used to, people thought or two, they didn't get on. I mean, Erin and Gabby are like really close friends, they always were, you know, and it's a man of beautiful relationships still.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But they last year in the US Open, they didn't warm up once together before matches. Well, everyone said, Oh, you must age and chairs, you know. They like to practice the warm up for different times. Yeah. They warm-up for matches is a little bit different. One might want to be a bit more relaxed, one might be a bit more intense, one a bit longer, one a bit less. So as you approach, you're adapting to those situations, and ultimately the job, even on doubles, the job in terms of is is Gabby fully prepared? And is Louisa fully prepared? How they prepare might be a little bit different. Yeah. And then are they prepared together as a team?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's always interesting to see how they practice how doubles players practice separately and together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and look, and over the course of 12 months, that I don't know if you're married or if you're with a partner. We all need our space sometimes, right? It's like, why not my wife?
SPEAKER_01That's why I'm here this weekend, our partner's at home. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And look, we we all need those bits. That doesn't mean that oh we get a little, they must hear each other, they're not spending time, they're sitting on separate tables. Yeah, it's tricky, it's just just challenging. We will have some weeks where those are great, at least it might like this week.
Practice Styles And Team Communication
SPEAKER_02I'm just feeling a bit down. There's a lot of vulnerability in in our team now. We're all very honest on on things. So it's like, you know what, this week there's nothing wrong. I just need a little bit more space this week. I'm probably not gonna do as many kids. So defense by it, I'm probably gonna just treat myself a little bit more to myself, you know, or all that's given and everyone respects each other. That level of communication, I think, is also vitally important to any team, you know, it's not just specific to uh to rules or to tennis, that's a life thing, right? You know, and having the understanding and the empathy, and you know, these are these are skills for me that are not never really talked about, but are unbelievably impactful to what makes a success with doubles team. And I think it's also hard to see some doubles splitting up because they don't have that those skills or they don't have someone in their team that's got those skills to be able to actually have real communication.
SPEAKER_01Like the social and emotional IQ skills on the court. Yeah, it's massive. So then people like that's why more teams break up than like on-port performance.
SPEAKER_02Yes, massive. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think I think on-court performance will take over a lot of cracks.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02If you're winning, you will take over cracks. But to be sustainable over a period of time and to win over two, three uh periods. Unless you're just really, really, really good. Like if you say I'll just call it Oscar Pencore as an example, like Oscar Penko system is so good that actually stick her on call with someone who she hates and they hate her for a period of time, it probably doesn't matter, right? Yeah, she's don't she's just saying winners, yeah. But if you're gonna give a team, if you're gonna be a doubles a double team that's a legit kind of double specialist team, you have to get all those other things right. Yeah. To be unsustainable success. So I mean I think a lot of teams on both legs and women's side they will have assumption-based communication. They will lose a couple of answers, but assuming that person thinks that it's doing that, and rather than having sort of conflict and having some highly emotional high-cube conversations, they'll just go, no, but they they clean things that they're doing that. Yeah, that's not how I am, so why? I and then the second thing I'd say why a lot of people split up is this has happened with Andre and every king
Rankings Math And Getting Into Draws
SPEAKER_02recently. They they get on a great and relatively successful short period, but they're just not going to get in the tournament.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, just the rankings still now though. Yeah. So sometimes it just is map, you know. Is that why Andre's putting on Casper this week?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're back in to get in and playing in Mojology's how we come in.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02To get into the events, we've had to find somebody who had a high high ranking. All the doubles plays on those rankings are already already much out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So he's in that kind of cusp of where you have to jump a little bit to be getting into the 1000 play. So all the 500. 500 1000 is.
SPEAKER_01Is it an easy yes for Casper to play doubles?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I think what Casper they make phone files or levels in a few energy guys. Okay. The Spanish area is they understand each other.
SPEAKER_01They stick together, yeah, culturally.
SPEAKER_02They they understand each other. Casper's a good guy, Andre's a good guy, there's uh mutual respect and had a relationship. And Alvarez called together for the weeks ago and played better Casper, like he was a professional, and he said, Yes, I want to play, and he and he's played. He's uh obviously this week, let's see how it unfolds. Observately in Montreal, he played, obviously, good one in the first round, uh step ponies again in the second round, they played well together, Pasper was fully invested, you know, and and it's a life opportunity for for Andre to have that to get to the event. You're perfect to think about arguing getting in all the events and that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's almost uh the reward for being trusted and we killed. I'd been lucky as a coach, Gabby and Aaron. I never ever even thought about entering a tournament. I think we might play lift because everyone at the top two seats in every tournament. And the same with Abby and Louisa, you know, whereas with Honberry has been a bit of a shift to me, actually, where it's like, shit, can you get in?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And oh my god, we gotta think about your partner might be oh my god. This is a whole different thought process um that actually I don't like as much as the thought. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because I prefer to just be working on bigger better tennis and yeah, the math and numbers game and all the points, and there's a lot to juggle, I'm sure. That's not fair.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah.
The Women’s Doubles Landscape Right Now
SPEAKER_01Can you talk a little bit more about Gabby and her like just the if you have a few, let's say you're we're almost at 20 minutes. Um. Like Gabby, I mean, because it's interesting, it feels like Gabby has been like such a constant like top two team with in both of the Aaron and Louisa and then putting up against the Alpha Lintownsman, and just like do you feel like the three or four of them are kind of on their own little island compared to the rest of the four, or like how would you say that's just the the state of like the top the VTA devils game right now and the teams and the individuals that are um I think I think consistently yes yes I I I I do I think uh however I wouldn't quite I don't think that's a Civil Kerr situation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you want to tell me another final and maybe Caddy on the wings that didn't play like best final. Don't forman Ladinovich left that big time particular, you know, and I mean I think that's a 10th down time which he's won. So I think there's uh there's teams out there. I mean, obviously Dallanina Kulge does have a lot of credit for having all they've they've made four off of the colour.
SPEAKER_01Big four-s a year, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I think they'll be back. I mean they're I think they're a very, very good team, and I think Jeff Boltzmann coaches and does a great job. And you know, I I think I think Romans Doubles is a in a very healthy situation actually. Yeah, we know you when you when you look at it. I do think the Browns fans tend to bring out the better teams.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because at the store. That's how it's that too, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that's I don't like to talk openly about Gabby's Browns fan record the last three years because it's very impressive. Uh-huh. We know publicers are death on it, so but I I do think that format naturally does help the better teams. You know, I I I think it takes a lot. I think it takes quite a lot to be those better teams in those in in that format. Whereas it it's a bit of a crash reach in these thousand years, I have a bit like even. They lost one match on the grass before with Volvan, and it was to Lovich and Kesla. Obviously, Lovich is a great player, Kesla's a great player. But in the first set, they lost the first set 63, but I think they had 12 break points in the first set. Oh yeah. And you lost basically five, seven I think it's you know, that's right. It's it's it's in the you you have to embrace the format, that's not an excuse, but it's just it's if you build that pressure of slam within the slams, you you you tend to come out on top.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, you you don't you don't tend to come out on that with lost that one really in this scenario in that in that format, you know. Um I mean, Sinead of Townsend, I think, deserve a good year talk to Alice, the best team in the world, and I think I think you know they are on paper, you know. They haven't won as many grandstones as people think. Yeah, when you left back in there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they had a big drought in some of the stats.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So, I mean, I don't know what this year they won French. They've won what this year and last year did they.
SPEAKER_01I think they won the Aussie and then they're not getting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so so so it's they're they're also ready level. Yeah, you know, I know I mean Gabriel had a pretty good record against them. I think maybe it was three and two or three-and-three, they they uh and they only played in big bigger matches. Um Gabby Louise have played them twice this year, um, had them beaten really in the Miami, set the breakout in the Miami semis, and just dropped their level at the wrong moment. And then I was gonna be going to kick in the French open, but yeah, um, that was on that day. There was a couple of things that were important by Ryan Anti on this wise, and they smelt worse, it would be like fantastic, you know, and so I think they rightly saw a probably giving them start on that edge of being blitzed. Yeah, you know, and I think if if anyone's working at the jaw, they're probably going over the out of the pendant, I would guess, yeah. First and foremost. You know, I don't say you know, drabing maybe that our team uh ratio of anything. Yeah, you know, and that's but I mean not quite firepower is in the out of the counter.
SPEAKER_01It's in like a clear number team team right now, though.
SPEAKER_02I I think so. I think so. I mean I think you know like Damanino through which you would say probably were the number two team for the first few months of the year. And uh we I think Gabby and the Wizard are covered out probably to have into that position. Um you know obviously around the call remies we're not seeing remix right now, you know, which I think is uh is a team that's only for a couple of years uh by right to be to be very bad player. Obviously, yesterday season was taking a little break from Teddy Sword.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um we know uh watch out as well though for the Eren moves.
SPEAKER_01It's gonna be absolutely Aaron playing well again.
SPEAKER_02That was I'm not saying that she's playing well because I told her with that when we had a five still down break of Eren on the stage with the night before. I thought she was lucky and really goodly, and I I always felt that was a nice match. Yeah, you know, and I think I think they're having SCC former SCC T2, right? I think there's real potential in all those guys. Eren's a confidence player, and Eren will be bad, she's a quite fair, yeah. You know, she hasn't had the best year, but she will, you know, they're they're starting to show that it with a form, obviously, but uh Nella Polf had a fantastic year, and I think a lot of it's matchups, right? I think Pops always a perfect follow for Mobile Power.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, and they they they match up very well, and then it's not surprising for you also were tripping. Oh, yeah. They have a lot better relationship in this team, they're all going to ins and outs. But it's almost like they could do three or four months together getting a break.
SPEAKER_01Uh they're very good. I mean they they uh can be more complimentary, yeah.
SPEAKER_02We weren't they're they're a very, very dangerous team. And there's lots. They actually I said this this morning because they were like, I look at the thousands of eggs now, and I'm like, Jeez, like even three years ago, I just thought that's a good draw, that's a good draw.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this draw is stacks and since he that's gonna get ones, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's like not for that first round, not for that first round, not for that first round. Wow, you know, obviously Dword Melanovic, you know, uh they've been all the champions lines like him in shit, you know, like so I think it's exciting. I think there's gonna be an interesting um since he's interesting open. Um you play fireworlds, you also go back to the slaves as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm excited about that. I've got to make it stuff.
SPEAKER_02I don't know, I mean you know ticket sales are going well. Yeah, you know, and I've heard there's gonna be the light spots around this. So I think I think uh I think one of the doubles is gonna look good for you.
SPEAKER_01Any final thoughts on men's doubles
Men’s Doubles Narratives And Advocacy
SPEAKER_01right now? Just the on the the landscape or the teams or changes.
SPEAKER_02Obviously, I mean men's doubles we've talked about for hours, um, you know, certainly everything that's going on right now. I think I think in some ways the vendor could be drawn on that's out a little bit of spark, you know, in terms of part of the actually, one of my reflections of the last few weeks is all of this conversation around where it fits and sits. And you know, when it's spoken like this, I spoke like a lot of my podcasts, there is conversations to be had. We don't shouldn't be stopping, we need to keep getting those conversations going. We have a lot of people come up to me this week. I've been very adequate on it, and we need the messages out there because we we need to understand some one, some transparency of what's going on. You know, we we we won't be led by headlines. Yeah, you know, when the headline means doubles doesn't work, exactly the headline of doubles is not sustainable, or doubles doesn't add up. One wonders wise, we don't know that. Yeah, so we need to know that. We also need to be asking some questions of the entity of their intention of where what we want. We've always doubles to fit within their vision for the sport, yeah. And then we've been getting the strategic planning and marketing and other product and all those things. But I I think one of the kind of my storylines now, not that I want was some singles against Bebolds, but I think there isn't really an extra edge now, like uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Henry hadn't say on an interview um when they played uh Kalashwitch and Kokenakis in the 70s, he was like, I can't lose, you know. Yes, I was holding it here and acknowledged that I would have the kind of a spark funny, you know.
SPEAKER_02We had it last year. I mean we were in Monterey last year, but our only kind of story were playing with its doubles, right? Oh yeah, that was so wild. Some of you ran kind of a full of that race we were watching, and everyone, including Lale Flanders, including everyone was cheering Lorani by the start. Oh you you kind of bought Mac and Raw. I guess you sound close, you know, like this point there's this rivalry is what was it is it was a bit more exteligable. Yeah, you know, and I think I mean we're gonna see that as well. It's like, okay, let's let's get you know some of these outspoken places. And again, I outspoken lots of Randy Help. And and I'd like to thank them for being outspoken because it's brought eyes to it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, so people uh uh marketing strategies and having people talking about others has to has to be a good thing. I I uh to go back to your to your question, I think it's been very interesting what what's happened this year. I heard Big World was a wonder when there was gonna be lots of changes. It didn't happen. So I won't reply well, that's why we say something too, but obviously Aravel Padric was sort of the one that I did for a while. People have been saying Aravello Padric would be quite outspoken that you're gonna be playing someone for two years. And Aravello being quite two and a half years little. But it's not like they become stales, but they've got a separate wind.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and I don't argue that why they're potentially, you know, behind how they are potentially the better team in the world right now. Yeah. Um the most survivors just know what they're doing. And again, they're grand slank team. They're very difficult to be in a grand slang.
SPEAKER_01Well if they then reverse their grand slang finals for Shiva Talkers, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, professionals. Battle Story and Ballelli, while we've been scrubbing a little bit with injury. I don't know really Badastorians will be getting a little bit drained because we've been all the other spokes, people love what we want very good for that one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, we've actually got new team that's doing very well in poor meetings and rerun. It's gonna be interesting if one of the Mike Sell comes back. Yeah. He's quite outscore can actually gain doubles. Oh, interesting. He sees himself as a singles guy. Oh yeah. So I think he will come back almost once and put in fit doubles as easy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. So I mean but I think these these narratives are nice narratives, right? It's a bit like we need the direct side of it, we need who I love like when every person is like uh Protagonist the one day, right?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. So I wrote a story recently about how he is like such a polished spokesperson because like his accent helps, but also he like his feature bubbling was was very profound and just like very professional and like to the point. Um it's been nice to see him like take the mic for doubles.
SPEAKER_02It is, and he doesn't away that we basically say we're not trying to disrect disrespect anybody in this, right? We're we're all team. How did we improve tennis? How would we grow tennis? How would we bring opportunities to tennis? You know, it's one of the oldest political games in the book is to cause distraction and get people fighting against each other, you know, and and and we shouldn't be so people to buy into that. You only move that from a market expect point of building a little bit of energy around matchups and things like that, but ultimately we should be trying to continue to go to sports and ignore the opportunities. And what's why I'd be like, we're able to speak more, it's faulty and hold.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, it's he's not single-verse double, it's like bringing opportunities, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's very fascinating how he does it, you know, and I think I think there's still a lot of conversations to be had on the on on what and but I would also say that is coming from the best double square in the world right now. Yeah. You know, why three I also think that hasn't even stronger impact because he's genuinely giving this is the last thing I'd say on this, he's giving something that's very, very never quite emotional in my point. I speak to you about this. We should not disrespect anybody who is one of the, like, and I do very fortunate what was a portion to be a problem, I think it's like seven grand strand finals. When you are there till the end of a grand flag, it gives a monumental privilege, it's a monumental privilege that very few players in this world ever experienced. Yeah, they are several outrage taken for the last four years in the single side, dropping a challenge I've got it target, turning with target results of it. So very few plays get the opportunity, and how we are preparing to go out from a single self level to play on the world stage on the biggest courts in the world, and I reference like the like stay Louise and forward because they were watching Romese.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02And to take that on your shoulders and to go into the fire and then to forward produce, so we're the biggest event. How we can ever disrespect that people that do have is completely beyond it. So when you've got someone like Henry who's blackmark, you can have one three, three ones as a break, taking that on your shoulders, and then you can talk with such fast and think that you have to lose the battle to it's been. You know, these are the these are the messages that we need to take. Because none of this needs to be like disrespecting any other fellow professionals. We all won and we all love the sports. Anyone that's got to be problem at playing at these events has gone through years and years and years of hardship, difficulty, willing sacrifice, you know, to be basically out the sport. And that's all I ever asked is let's disrespect everyone with those life, and let's not go about this in the closest disrespectful way. Um yeah, for me, Henry is our James Holder.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the Bradman's girl, I think I said that. Great thing sounds fun, appreciate it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Awesome.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, and thank you for what you guys uh are doing. Yeah, we really it really is appreciated, you know? To have to have people that are are taking uh your time and and your care and your your messaging. Oh yeah. It goes a long way as well. So likewise, yeah, thanks a lot. There's gonna be there's a battle coming. This is not gonna I don't think this is gonna be an easy one.
SPEAKER_01It's not gonna be an easy one, yeah. No, it's not.
Why ATP Politics Hits Doubles
SPEAKER_01Do you do you think women's uh it's strictly the men like men's right now, or do you think it'll go everywhere?
SPEAKER_02I no, I I think I think it I think it is the men's right now, and I I think and this is another thing that I would say on this, it's like I've actually got asked this question. I've had a few coaches come up and say nice things this week who have been listening to the podcast. A lot of this is male ego.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you know from the ACP leadership standpoint. It's it's it's entitled elitist.
SPEAKER_02You know, you you name all of the all of the kind of big groups, right? White. White, middle-aged, male, ego archetype privileged, you know, and the women, so the way that the way that the ATP board is set up, the players actually don't really have a single. They actually they actually get informed of decisions. Oh we're gonna thank you. Whereas the women's is set up and Gabby's even part of this, the women's is set up as um they are part of the decision-making team.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's completely structured.
SPEAKER_01Like at the player council?
SPEAKER_02Gabby's working two, three hours a day on on player council things. So this sort of thing wouldn't just get pushed through on the women's side, yeah. And then you also naturally have because so much of it is because so much of it is personal agenda, and it really is, yeah. This is like this is why is that guy making so much money?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the thing the like lower rank singles player.